Can Women Pastor ?

[rdp]

That's just the point, the Bible DOES NOT SAY that "women preached"....YOU'RE SUPPLYING THAT INTO THE TEXT.....NEVER SYAYED BY THE SAME! You have women who "went everywhere preaching" from a jail cell!?!?!?!?!

Yes, the church is made up of women, as well as men, as well as infants, as well as little children! I suppose that the infants also had their Bible's out & was a spittin' & sputterin' ehh??? O' consistency, thou art a jewel!

Let me help you out a bit on I Tim. 3 & your assertion that "office" is in the feminine. This same Greek syntax & word is also used in I Ptr. & Lk, and is translated as "day of visitation"....which was & will be the return of Christ, not a "liberated" woman executing a man's place! Or else, you better make Christ a "she"????????????????

The identical phrase is also translated as "bishoprick" in Acts 1 to refer to the office that Judas [a man] held! So, what we learn here is that it's the noun [office] that's in the feminine, but the one holding that office is in the MASCULINE, just as the next verse shows in I Tim. 3:2....so, sorry, try again!

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by rdp

So now are you relegating Paul's teachings to the NT church as merely his "preferences"??????? Come, come now...let's get honest.

Verse 1 mentions the church, nothing is said about "women preaching," that's the whole point. You are the one who supplies that INTO the text, which does not confess the same! In sum, the entire "woman preacher" argument is fostered on the shoulders of speculation...not Scripture!

simplyme has some good points as well.

I was wondering if your wife does anything outside the home or do you keep her changed to the house? Because that is the kind of attitude you are keeping. Yes the wife (woman is to be in submission to her own husband but as you so well refer to the OT, in the begining God created woman to be a help meet. She is your equal in every way but one you are her head there fore when things come down to a final decision it is left to the man. there fore a woman can teach or preach as long as she is in submision to her head. The misunderstanding is in the authority of the office of a minister of any kind. The ministry is not given the kind of authority anywhere in scripture that is taken by most of the pastors in the church. Jesus is our head (speaking of men) not the five fold ministry. They are a gift to the church just as the gifts of the spirit, given to edify, equip the saints for the work of the ministry. Note Paul includes all saints in Ephesians 4 in doing the work of the ministry. With that said I can also say as Paul "I suffer not a woman to teach or preach" I would rather the man take his position as God has directed a man to do. And let the wife be in submision to her own husband. I have seen in the church today (not UPCI) many husband /wife pastor teams, and this is the kind of church I belong to. The spirit of God flows in a greater way than I have ever seen in my whole life.

[TheLegalist]

I love how people argue for women pastors and teachers to the heads of homes etc... Simply shows how pathetic the church has become and how excusable anything is anymore as long as you can get something from some variable meaning and place someone within the vacinity of it being said.... WE HAVE DOCTRINE! ROFL!

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

I love how people argue for women pastors and teachers to the heads of homes etc... Simply shows how pathetic the church has become and how excusable anything is anymore as long as you can get something from some variable meaning and place someone within the vacinity of it being said.... WE HAVE DOCTRINE! ROFL!

People may have doctrines of men but in my estimation they is based on convictions and traditions of men not sound understanding of scripture.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

There are so many man made doctrines based on a scripture that speaks in a negative light about a subject that it is unreal. Lets get real and look farther than one verse and study the whole subject and get understanding of what God truly ment. And or what the writer was saying. Look at the ministry of Jesus, oh how we forget. Jesus did not condem his diciples for doing work on the sabbath day, yet some get upeset if a women is used of God to speak a message to the church. How pety is God, God or is man. In my estimation if God wants to use a women he can. This may seem off the subject but I give it as a example. Many have said if some one has not been baptized in in the exact way they beleive one is not saved, yet God has seen fit to give them the Holy Ghost upon their repentance. It is my understanding that God does not give someone the Holy Ghost unless they are saved. hmmm

[simplyme]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

People may have doctrines of men but in my estimation they is based on convictions and traditions of men not sound understanding of scripture.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

There are so many man made doctrines based on a scripture that speaks in a negative light about a subject that it is unreal. Lets get real and look farther than one verse and study the whole subject and get understanding of what God truly ment. And or what the writer was saying. Look at the ministry of Jesus, oh how we forget. Jesus did not condem his diciples for doing work on the sabbath day, yet some get upeset if a women is used of God to speak a message to the church. How pety is God, God or is man. In my estimation if God wants to use a women he can. This may seem off the subject but I give it as a example. Many have said if some one has not been baptized in in the exact way they beleive one is not saved, yet God has seen fit to give them the Holy Ghost upon their repentance. It is my understanding that God does not give someone the Holy Ghost unless they are saved. hmmm

Somewhere in scripture it says that even some demons can speak in tongues.,
Hmmmm..indeed.
I guess you think they're saved?, lol

Baptism in the titles of father son and holy ghost does not give the NAME.
which is JESUS., so yes there IS a BIG difference that matters, for salvation.
bye now.

[stasis]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Can females be used in the office of a Christian pastor and in Eldership roles ?
Yes or No ? What say ye ?

What I think doesn't matter. But what does Apostle Paul say? He says no. In the context of the church, among believers, Paul says he wouldn't suffer a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man, surely speaking of a godly man who is trying his best to serve God.

He says women shall be saved (sozo) in 'childbearing' (probably a weak translation), if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

One of the main roles of women in the first century was teaching the children, which is a grave responsibility.

Of course if the men are living ungodly, riotously and acting foolish, it is a God-fearing woman's responsibility to set them straight.

Otherwise, no.

[Scott Hutchinson]

If a woman can't be a Bishop or Pastor can women preach at all ?

[stasis]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

If a woman can't be a Bishop or Pastor can women preach at all ?

Not to believing men.

It seems Paul's view of women in 1 Timothy 2:13-14, is that they are more prone to deception. It's true women are generally more led by emotion than men, due to their nature (perhaps as a mechanism of child-rearing). The serpent apparently knew this and took advantage of it. Adam wasn't deceived, but was seduced into following after Eve (he knew what he was doing was wrong, but did it anyway). Maybe this is somehow related to how men would respond to false doctrine being taught them by a woman. Perhaps if the precedent is set of a woman being above a man, and she begins teaching false doctrine, would the easily seduced man be more prone to tolerate her false doctrine and 'play along' than in the case of a male preacher?

Whereas if the woman is the taught, and the man is her teacher, she can receive correction from the man's (hopefully) more objective, less emotion-driven view concerning doctrine.

I'm aware there are lots of generalities here regarding the genders, but Paul must have said what he did for a good reason.

[Scott Hutchinson]

What about your daughters shall prophesy from Acts 2:17 ?
Or 1 Cor.11 about women prophesying in the church ?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by simplyme

Somewhere in scripture it says that even some demons can speak in tongues.,
Hmmmm..indeed.
1) I guess you think they're saved?, lol

2) Baptism in the titles of father son and holy ghost does not give the NAME.
which is JESUS., so yes there IS a BIG difference that matters, for salvation.
bye now.

1) Only if one was deceived enough to think that speaking in tongues saves you in the first place.

2) Who gave Jesus His Authority, His Power?

3) You should capitalize Father, Son and Holy Ghost-- these are eternal attributes of the Almighty GOD.