What's the point of the 1000 yr reign?

[Arphaxad]

maybe i should have titled "If noone is to be saved than what's the point ....."
or " will people still be saved during..."

obviously there will be people left, but they will still have their sin nature.So will they still be sinning, and that is what we will be judging them for?

[easter]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

maybe i should have titled "If noone is to be saved than what's the point ....."
or " will people still be saved during..."

obviously there will be people left, but they will still have their sin nature.So will they still be sinning, and that is what we will be judging them for?

That is a good question.I don't know much about the 1000 year reign,maybe somebody does and answer this question.I'd like to know this answer.

[Daniel12]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

maybe i should have titled "If noone is to be saved than what's the point ....."
or " will people still be saved during..."

Okay, then that would be a different topic.

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

obviously there will be people left, but they will still have their sin nature.So will they still be sinning, and that is what we will be judging them for?

It seems reasonable to assert that there will be people left even after the tribulation, but keep in mind that they will have experienced a tremendous display of wrath, and they'll see angels carrying out judgment. If in fact every person not gathered to be with the Lord were removed, then what would be the point for the last vial of wrath, the one where a great earth quake is witnessed? It would be pointless IMO, because the saints certainly don't need to see it. They've already obeyed the Lord's instructions.
As for why we'll be judging them, the church will administrate the Lord's government. I just discussed this in Dan 7:22

7:22 until the Ancient of Days arrived and judgment was rendered in favor of the holy ones of the Most High. Then the time came for the holy ones to take possession of the kingdom.

and it's found in Rev 20:4

20:4 Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those who had been given authority to judge. ...They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

As to the remnant of humanity having a sinful nature, without a devil to tempt them and the Lord himself ruling from Jerusalem, the world will still be at peace. I find it quite remarkable that even the Jews, who don't believe Jesus is their Messiah, believe that the world will find peace one day. This seems to be a central teaching of their Messianic beliefs for some time now. Why Christians, who have the wonderful blessing of the Holy Spirit, don't believe this is beyond me.

BTW, I'm trying to get your thread back on topic, so please excuse the exchanges between Bro. Blume and myself. This is now the third thread where this has happened, but at this point I'm quite weary of discussing the faithless, perverse mockery of Jesus' prophecy that is preterism. It's too bad it has to be brought into such a wonderful subject such as the Messianic Age, something the Jews have been awaiting much longer than Christians, in this manner. Hopefully I receive a definitive answer soon, because I desire to discuss some of these things too. They are a good cause to not lose hope. In the age to come the world will look almost nothing like it does right now, but the question is: Who's going to live on it?...and who's going to be ruling over it? Those are very important questions.

Take care, Daniel12

[easter]

One more question before you get back on track...
I really should read up and study this subject but I never felt the need to because I won't be here when the tribulation is taking place but does this mean that the ones caught up out of here will be coming back here or is this only for the tribulation saints?
If your a post trib never mind.That would only be another debate.

[Daniel12]

Originally Posted by easter

One more question before you get back on track...
I really should read up and study this subject but I never felt the need to because I won't be here when the tribulation is taking place but does this mean that the ones caught up out of here will be coming back here or is this only for the tribulation saints?
If your a post trib never mind.That would only be another debate.

easter, I hold a post-trib view only because I see one second coming spoken of in the scripture, and it takes place "immediately following those days"; but I don't see any reason to debate it. It seems to me people have been so terrified by Revelation teaching that anything other than the post-trib view must be necessary. I'll have to discuss this in another thread though.
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BTW, I wanted to clarify something I wrote in a previous post here. I said:

As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of teaching on Revelation and the Olivet Discourse can go straight into the fire. That's where it belongs IMHO.

And my opinion hasn't changed. But what I wanted to clarify is that this applies to specific interpretations that seem to abound everywhere. Teachings such as the tribulation, resurrection, rapture and the Lord reigning on the earth are all scripturally sound IMO. This is based both on what I see in the scripture and what I believe the Lord's shown me. But if you check in any bookstore you'll see that there is every kind of sensationalist writing to the effect that Revelation is "just around the corner", "this is the year", etc.,etc. Where these people come from and why they keep cranking this stuff out is a compete mystery to me. IMO you can safely ignore about 99%+ of that kind of writing; occasionally there's something interesting, such as a book I saw a couple years ago detailing the various approaches to Rev over the past couple hundred years. But the majority of writing that's trying to convince people that this is the beginning of Daniel's last week, or that everything is imminent is of no value IMO. From what I see in the scripture, there will be signs when the end times are upon the world, but the big question will be whether anyone's even looking for them. However, there will be absolutely no doubt whatsoever what the tribulation is, or when it's started (at least there's none in the one shown to me)...but that will have to wait for another thread too.

Daniel12

[easter]

I respect your views on this,one great thing that as a believer and a child of God even if we hold different views/beliefs(Christ only) this will not effect our salvation.Whether we die and and stay in a state of soul sleep or whether we leave here Pre,Mid,Post.Thanks for your reply to my question.The Bible is the only place I would go to for understanding God's word.I agree there are books out there, but the problem with this is a lot of false teachings/inner-faith and secular have mixed in with these teachings.The tribulation don't scare me.If the Rapture happens before the 7 year tribulation(great/my view)mid-we would miss the last of the tribulation,which is the worst,the indwelling of Satan into the man who will be the Antichrist.If it's post I'll be dead because I will have had my head loped off for not taking the mark of the beast.Either way I will end up with the Lord.
Thank you my friend and I do look forward to reading the rest of your teaching on this subject and explaining how John saw the souls of the martyred tribulation saints up under the alter and why would they be told to wait awhile longer?

[Daniel12]

Originally Posted by easter

I respect your views on this,one great thing that as a believer and a child of God even if we hold different views/beliefs(Christ only) this will not effect our salvation.

It shouldn't, but unfortunately it does. It seems to me that the same people who are hyper about their preterism are likely the same ones who were hyper about their futurism too. The fact is, there are people who are just plain "hyper", no matter what the subject is, oh well...

Originally Posted by easter

Whether we die and and stay in a state of soul sleep

As for that topic, I didn't make it back to that thread yet, but since there's not a lot of scripture on it I don't know how profitable that discussion will be. As I understand it, death is likened to rest, but I don't see anything explicit about souls sleeping, so I don't know what else there is to say there.

Originally Posted by easter

or whether we leave here Pre,Mid,Post.Thanks for your reply to my question.

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by easter

The Bible is the only place I would go to for understanding God's word.I agree there are books out there, but the problem with this is a lot of false teachings/inner-faith and secular have mixed in with these teachings.

Yes, the bible is the main source and everything must harmonize with all scripture.
BTW, I found the link to the book I was referring to above. Here's the Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/History-End-Wo.../dp/0060816988

What I found most interesting is how Revelation has been approached since the rise of so-called tele-evangelism and the advent of atomic warfare. Those two have multiplied the fear factor incredibly. I didn't read that entire book (just parts in a bookstore about a yr ago), but even the reviews at Amaz. should be insightful.

Originally Posted by easter

The tribulation don't scare me.

Nor me, because the main thing that's going to happen is revival will take place everywhere!

Originally Posted by easter

If the Rapture happens before the 7 year tribulation(great/my view)mid-we would miss the last of the tribulation,which is the worst,the indwelling of Satan into the man who will be the Antichrist.If it's post I'll be dead because I will have had my head loped off for not taking the mark of the beast.Either way I will end up with the Lord.

If you read 2 Thes 1 and 2, you'll find that Paul told them not to be troubled as though the day of the Lord had taken place, because that day (of the Lord) will not arrive until the man of sin has been revealed and the apostasy has taken place. As I understand scripture, both of those will happen in the tribulation. As for the "lopping of heads", no Spirit filled saints died over the MOB from what the Lord has shown me, none. Those who are reporting this are making it up and ignoring scripture; they didn't here any of that carnal foolishness from God. That's what I'll be reporting at some point.

Originally Posted by easter

Thank you my friend and I do look forward to reading the rest of your teaching on this subject and explaining how John saw the souls of the martyred tribulation saints up under the alter and why would they be told to wait awhile longer?

Again, you're welcome.

Take care, Daniel12

P.S. I'll address the martyrs in another post.

[Daniel12]

I thought I'd finish up a few loose ends here before moving to other topics. It appears the "other shoe has not dropped" (a reply to a question I made here). But I wanted to make clear I have no intentions of discussing preterism anymore with Bro. Blume in this forum. I'll discuss just about any other subject -including prophecy- with him, but taking over threads in this manner to focus exclusively on preterism is done with as far as I'm concerned. The main reason for my position is I've received no simple direct answers to most of my questions, thus my time is better spent elsewhere (which I'll mention below). I'll leave the door open for discussions with others on preterism (within limits of course), but my honest opinion of preterism is it's a complete waste of my time right now.
__________________________________________

To finish my last point with easter, regarding:

I do look forward to reading the rest of your teaching on this subject and explaining how John saw the souls of the martyred tribulation saints up under the alter and why would they be told to wait awhile longer?

The verse referred to is Rev 6:9-11 which reads:

6:9 Now when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been violently killed because of the word of God and because of the testimony they had given. 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Master, holy and true, before you judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?” 6:11 Each of them was given a long white robe and they were told to rest for a little longer, until the full number was reached of both their fellow servants and their brothers who were going to be killed just as they had been.

As I studied and put the story together, John is shown a multitude of people who have been martyred. Those martyrs are part of the incident mentioned here in Rev 13:

13:10 If anyone is meant for captivity,
into captivity he will go.
If anyone is to be killed by the sword,
then by the sword he must be killed.
This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints.

This is event is also part of this event described in Rev 11:

11:2 But do not measure the outer courtyard of the temple; leave it out, because it has been given to the Gentiles, and they will trample on the holy city for forty-two months.

However, trying to "prove" all of this is impossible in any conventional sense of the word. The best I could do was show how, when and where the various events are taking place (i.e., to harmonize the accounts in Rev). Let me add just a couple other points on this for now. These scriptures just given are the most violent in the entire story, and they occur prior to the tribulation. Further, the worst of the violence does not occur in the city of Jerusalem, but those are all the details I'll discuss here. (Except to say that it's quite possible certain signs could be given just prior to these events.)

But to continue with easter's question, they (the martyrs) are told to rest (a clear indication of death) until their fellow servants and brothers were slain. I believe this refers to the two witnesses in Rev 11:7

11:7 When they have completed their testimony, the beast that comes up from the abyss will make war on them and conquer them and kill them.

As I understand the scripture here, these are the last two martyrs that will ever die for the Lord in this present age. The Lord is making clear he knew completely the events of Rev 13 would happen, and informs the martyrs that their blood will be avenged, which will take place at his coming.

Also note the last part of 13:10, "This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints." Everyone should note this because it will require a lot of patience and faith to make it through that part of the last week. I hope this addresses at least part of your question easter.
__________________________________________
Now to other things. Recently (since I stopped disputing about preterism here) I've been redoing a number of word studies I worked on some time ago. The main problem with them (at least for me) was that I used the NIV when I first made them. I've since abandoned that modern version in favor of the NET and NASV. This is a personal preference, but I found that the NIV omitted a number of verses and was quite different from the AV(authorized ver, or KJV). There are some differences between the NET and AV, but not as many as there were with the NIV IMO.
If you're trying to understand prophecy I strongly recommend (at least if you don't know the original languages, which I don't) that you try to find a modern language translation, so that the king's English doesn't present problems too. Trying to understand what a prophecy is saying is difficult enough without struggling with old English too.

In any event, I've almost finished redoing some word studies concerning the terminology used in eschatology, and I will probably start a thread in the esch. forum. I see that Bro. Blume has done something similar, but since his is concerned with proving the preterist approach, I haven't looked at it at recently. Now unless I've missed the mark, I think at least a couple dozen people have looked at this thread here since I last posted, thus it seems quite likely there's an interest in this subject. So (Lord willing) look for something from me in that forum in the near future with a futurist viewpoint.
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Finally, I don't know if I addressed all of Arphaxad's questions here, but I wanted to again offer apologies for the way this thread has gone. Hopefully it's clear where, when and with whom I want to discuss preterism. This thread is not it. But the Messianic Age is certainly something we (at least I) should spend more time discussing. The next age is so unlike this one that it should give encouragement and hope to everyone. Don't give up! This is not all there is! It will require persistence and faith every step of the way, but eternal life awaits everyone who endures to the last day.

Take care, Daniel12

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by easter

One more question before you get back on track...
I really should read up and study this subject but I never felt the need to because I won't be here when the tribulation is taking place but does this mean that the ones caught up out of here will be coming back here or is this only for the tribulation saints?
If your a post trib never mind.That would only be another debate.

Just a question to think about, what if as most everything in prophecy is symbolic that the numbers don't mean a literal 1000 years but a time of perfection inother words it could go forever. What if we are living in that time now because all of Rev. has been fulfilled at the time of 70 ad when God poured out his wrath on those that crucified him, when they would not repent. This all would be a moot point and we would be worried about something aready past. This would mean we could get on with bringing the kindgdom of God to full fruitition in the world because satan has been bound and only has the power that we give him.

Just a thought. Never accept a view before looking at all other views and comparing them. There is a reason for the differant views find the reason and many times it will clearify which is truth.

[easter]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Just a question to think about, what if as most everything in prophecy is symbolic that the numbers don't mean a literal 1000 years but a time of perfection inother words it could go forever. What if we are living in that time now because all of Rev. has been fulfilled at the time of 70 ad when God poured out his wrath on those that crucified him, when they would not repent. This all would be a moot point and we would be worried about something aready past. This would mean we could get on with bringing the kindgdom of God to full fruitition in the world because satan has been bound and only has the power that we give him.

Just a thought. Never accept a view before looking at all other views and comparing them. There is a reason for the differant views find the reason and many times it will clearify which is truth.

What if we are living in that time?Do you mean the 1000 year reign?
I study prophecy some and all of Rev.has not been fulfilled if you are connecting it with the 1000 year reign.
But we could not possibly be living in the thousand year reign.Where's Jesus?
He is suppose to set up here for a thousand years.If Satan is bound,one would think this renders him powerless until he is once more loosed.