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| The D.A.'s Office The views expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of AFF or the Admin of AFF. |
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11-22-2007, 03:28 PM
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Beautiful are the feet......
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right...behind...you!
Posts: 6,600
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At the previous GC in Ohio, the conservatives (mostly) voted to postpone a vote for a year for evaluation purposes.
Why can't they now postpone leaving the UPCI for a year to evaluate how the passed resolution is effecting the org?
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11-22-2007, 05:23 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 697
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maybe they are? (some of them) Maybe thats part of the reason for the meeting.
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11-23-2007, 01:24 AM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meBNme
That last post sounded a little harsher than I intended it.
Only a small portion was aimed directly at you DA, the majority was addressing an overall spirit in many of the posts/threads I have seen here.
BTW, congrats on the spanish ministry!
The UPC Spanish general super is Sergio Vitansa, who shares land and a building with us, and started out as a daughter work. It is AMAZING to see the changes transform their lives!
God bless you in that work!
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Thanks.
Know Sergio well ... we are friends ... worked under him to promote Spanish ministries nationally.
As for assuming the worst about the recruiting situation I described .... this same situation actually happened .... there's more irony but I won't disclose it.
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11-28-2007, 09:49 AM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
2007 Manual Page 159
Position Papers/Ministerial Code of Ethics
ends with...
"Having accepted a pastorate, I will not use my influence to alienate the church or any portion thereof from the fellowship or support of the United Pentecostal Church International. If my convictions change, I will be honorable enough to withdraw."
Questions:
Will ministers withdrawing abide by the code of ethics they ascribed to in the manual when they affirmed their membership with the fellowship?
Will they simply withdraw w/o using their influence to alienate their church which may be UPCI affiliated? Will they not use their influence to alienate the fellowship or support of the UPCI?
Have not their convictions changed in regards to abiding to the current bylaws of the UPCI ... and so the honorable thing is to withdraw without trying to bring others w/ them?
Will their integrity be questioned ???... do they not also fall under question ethically if they break this code of ethics? ... which can seemingly then be adjudicated under resolution 3?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
First, a church can be informed but before the meeting ... a pastor has a window ... to exert influence as to alienate the church's decision ....
but that's not at the heart of the issue ....
To make this thread about the procedural issue of disaffiliation is to miss it entirely. We are speaking about the ethical commitment ministers and pastors made when they agreed to enter the fellowship.
They agreed not only to the AS and Fundamental doctrine ... but also to the teachings/positions of the fellowship, it's bylaws and guidelines.
Will those leaving or considering leaving act ethically as to the underlined portion below:
2007 Manual Page 159
Position Papers/Ministerial Code of Ethics
ends with...
"Having accepted a pastorate, I will not use my influence to alienate the church or any portion thereof from the fellowship or support of the United Pentecostal Church International. If my convictions change, I will be honorable enough to withdraw."
Were the calls by some ministers to protest/boycott organizational divisions with their offerings unethical as stated in the fellowship's teaching/position for ministerial ethics?
Are those unhappy w/ the "change of direction" of the org and promoting alienation/division violating their commitments made when they applied for their license by not simply and honorably withdrawing?
Yes, tv is a conviction dear to some ... but weren't their commitments not to adversely influence or contend towards the disunity of the faith also convictions?
Have some poisoned their congregations w/ anti-org rhetoric from the pulpit? Is there strong-arming by some being used to influence departure?
These are just some of the ethical commitments made by those applying for license with the fellowship:
[This is a current application for a local license]
Isn't part of the teaching of the church this position paper on ethical and honorable departure?
Are those considering a concerted departure avoiding the breaking of the unity of the Spirit in the assemblies?
Have they refrained from speaking evil, critical and contentious words about anyone in their fellowship? What have they done to work towards peace and harmony? And have they been cooperating w/ all efforts of the organization?
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Ethics ... revisited ... Bump.
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12-17-2007, 10:43 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Bump ...
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12-17-2007, 11:46 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Are all these names current or immediate past UPC?
I am thinking the only MO name on there is from ALJC...
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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06-02-2009, 08:34 AM
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Absolute Agenda
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 420
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Re: Ministerial Ethics, Dropping Out and TV: Did Y
Articles of Faith revisited.
Good topic.
BUMP
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06-02-2009, 09:15 AM
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Sister Alvear
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 27,040
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Re: Ministerial Ethics, Dropping Out and TV: Did Y
Personally people will be what they are and Live what they want to live....changing groups does not usually change people...many times far deeper motives are involved...
Since we are all humans...there will always be new groups forming...people coming and going...that is just a part of life...
Can we really say certain groups are more spiritual than others when only God knows the heart? We might can say certain people or groups have more laws to live by but how do you judge long dresses and white shirts if the heart is evil? I am NOT in any way saying anyone´s heart is evil but it stands to reason NOT everyone is sincere just because they cry standards...
What about men who do not even know the voice of God? What about so called leaders that support men that do wrong and world never be humble enough to say I am sorry? Dear ones GOD sees a lot deeper than we do...be careful....
I kind of think most of the time it is not always what you believe it is who you are friends with…
(MY opinion is ONLY my opinion)
Let me add I have here some say that I take up for the liberals because of certain statements but that too is not true. I try to express my personal feelings and sometimes people read into what I say things that I am not saying...
I don´t like tags...I like the word CHRISTIAN...
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06-02-2009, 09:21 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Ministerial Ethics, Dropping Out and TV: Did Y
Having been conservative for 16 years in the UPC, we felt the best thing to do was resign and move on when our convictions changed. However, I do believe there is a right time for people to revisit manuals written by men and assess whether they should be changed.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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06-02-2009, 09:28 AM
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Absolute Agenda
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 420
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Re: Ministerial Ethics, Dropping Out and TV: Did Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Having been conservative for 16 years in the UPC, we felt the best thing to do was resign and move on when our convictions changed. However, I do believe there is a right time for people to revisit manuals written by men and assess whether they should be changed.
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Isn't this one of those times?
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