Deltaguitar-Salvation Requires More Than Faith! - Page 10

Michael The Disciple · #91 03-10-2009, 10:23 PM

Those who are flirting with what they call "Calvinism" will usually draw back when it comes to predestination. They cant believe that GOD and not man makes the choice of who will believe.

TRFrance · #92 03-11-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Those who are flirting with what they call "Calvinism" will usually draw back when it comes to predestination. They cant believe that GOD and not man makes the choice of who will believe.

Kind of a modified neo-Calvinism, perhaps.

Timmy · #93 03-11-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Those who are flirting with what they call "Calvinism" will usually draw back when it comes to predestination. They cant believe that GOD and not man makes the choice of who will believe.

What's you guys' take on Matt 22:14?

"For many are called, but few are chosen."

Who are called? Who, out of those who are called, are chosen? Who chose? What about the ones who were called but not chosen?

KWSS1976 · #94 03-11-2009, 08:21 AM

I think it is talking about many are called to teach and preach but few are chosen to do so I myself do not think it is taking about salvation as most do..just my take on it..

TRFrance · #95 03-11-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

I think it is talking about many are called to teach and preach but few are chosen to do so I myself do not think it is taking about salvation as most do..just my take on it..

The context of verse has to do with people being called to salvation... not called to preaching/teaching. (Matt 22:1-14)

LUKE2447 · #96 03-11-2009, 08:37 AM

Apostolic and Calvinism..... How do these relate in any way? Sorry you can junk standards to some degree but calvinism. Nope!

KWSS1976 · #97 03-11-2009, 08:47 AM

Ok got ya TR I reread it but I still do not think that is is talking about the UPC/Apostolic church in general from what I read it is sounding to me talking about people not believing in jesus christ. That is one on the arguments I hear from peps in the UPC talking to other peps I've had it said to me before and I believe looking at it I think it is talking about the unbeliever and lord knows we have plenty of those in the world...

DividedThigh · #98 03-11-2009, 08:51 AM

wow even i agree with you i cor dude, lol, miracles are still possible, dt

*AQuietPlace* · #99 03-11-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

There's an interesting story concerning my brother's name. He's Tom. There is no "Thomas" along the whole paternal line, however for about the last 4 or 5 generations the men have had the middle name of "Tom" or Thomas. The father was known by his first name, the the "junior" was called Tom or Tommy. That carried all the way through to my dad who named his first born "Thomas" and dispensed with the zig-zagging nature of the names.

In the church minutes of a church in North Carolina dated between 1796 and 1804 - my namesake, who was about early twenties and who also was the "preacher's kid," is listed as being censured by the church for drinking "spirituous liquors." It appears that he and a "free black brother" name "Tom" got hold of a bottle and sowed some wild oats together. "Tom, a free black" is named as being censured at the same time for the same reason.

It was in the following generation that the name "Thomas" enters the family record. Apparently a real friendship had been made between the two wayward and backsliding young men that is carried down to this day in the family's history.

That's a neat story.

pelathais · #**100** 03-11-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Those who are flirting with what they call "Calvinism" will usually draw back when it comes to predestination. They cant believe that GOD and not man makes the choice of who will believe.

I think you've got something mixed up here, Bro. "They" ("so-called Calvinists") do believe in predestination and they do believe that GOD and not man makes the choice of who believes. This is the Doctrine of Election.

Personally, I find Calvinism to be incomplete here. Both views are correct, IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Kind of a modified neo-Calvinism, perhaps.

Instead of looking at the ideas as opposing viewpoints, one on one side of a line on a piece of paper and the the other on the other side of the line; how about trying to put the ideas into three dimensional space?

Instead of a black and white world with a shade of gray representing "flirting" with an idea; how about looking at all the colors of the spectrum?

The idea of predestination is argued quite strongly and emphatically by Paul. Yet even Paul sought to persuade people to do something with the Gospel. I see both views as being correct - simultaneously. It's a fundamental paradox. We are dealing with the mind of God, here.

Will the Almighty be surprised at who makes it into heaven? You remember the old yarn? The people who you thought were going to make it won't and those you didn't think would make it do? Will God be among the surprised? Of course not. He already knows about the victory and the overcoming stregnth that you and I have only begun to tap into.

That's one the the cool things I find in the so-called "Calvinist" view, though it's much older than Calvin and goes back to Augustine and before him, Paul. God has confidence in my victories. That means I will be victorious. Of course, to actually achieve that victory I still have to actually do something.

But with the fear of ultimate failure gone, I feel a great deal more confident when I do those things that I ought.