The Apostles' Creed

[Michael The Disciple]

Finally, Jesus ascended to paradise, but He did not do so alone. Jesus took with Him those who in the Old Testament had lived in covenant relationship with God.

If so they are living there as mortals.

14: That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16: Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Here Paul says ONLY JESUS has immortality.

[jimmyrrs]

Originally Posted by Sam

This is from an article titled "Where Are the Dead?" which appeared in the December 2008 issue of the Pentecostal Herald. It was written by David Norris.


The New Testament records significant events associated with the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus. The psalmist prophesied that before Jesus ascended into heaven, He would first descend triumphantly to sheol --hades in the New Testament-- and ascend, taking with Him a whole host of those who had been “captive” (Psalm 68:18; Ephesians 4:8-10). Thus, when the victory of the cross was accomplished, Jesus descended to the abode of the dead and boldly proclaimed (“preached”) His total victory over Satan (1 Peter 3:19). In demonstration of His conquest, He made an open show of the devil, mocking and humiliating him. (See Colossians 2;15). Jesus then claimed for Himself the keys of death and hell. (See Revelation 1:18). Finally, Jesus ascended to paradise, but He did not do so alone. Jesus took with Him those who in the Old Testament had lived in covenant relationship with God.

Twenty times in the Old Testament it refers to descending to sheol or as sheol being “down.” in the New Testament, when writers described paradise the referred to it as up. (See 2 Corinthians 12:4). Whereas the Old Testament was oblique in its pronouncements o life after death, Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would that day be with Him in paradise. (See Luke 23:43.) Indeed, the New Testament celebrates that those who die will immediately be ushered into the presence of the Lord. Paul professed, “to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8).

Sam, I must ask; do you really think anyone is in heaven today, December 22, 2008?
Do you thank that paradise is heaven?
Will check back later, going to work.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by jimmyrrs

Sam, I must ask; do you really think anyone is in heaven today, December 22, 2008?
Do you thank that paradise is heaven?
Will check back later, going to work.

Is paradise heaven?
2 Corinthians 12:2 and 4 indicates to me that Paul used the terms "paradise" and "third heaven" interchangeably. I honestly don't know where that is located physically. We have an atmospheric heaven and a stellar heaven and a third heaven(paradise). I'm not sure where the "third heaven" is in relationship to the other 2 heavens.

Anyone in heaven today?
I know there are differences of opinion on this. It seems to me that both Paul and Peter expected death to be an exodus from their physical body and an entrance into a place or realm where God is. This is how I understand 2 Peter 1:13-15 where Peter refers to his death as a departure/exodus and putting off a tabernacle/tent. Paul uses the same imagery of putting off a tent/tabernacle in 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 and in Philippians 1:21-24 speaks of being with the Lord when he leaves his body.

So, in my opinion:
paradise and the third heaven are synonomous
and
folks are somewhere in the presence of the Lord after leaving their bodies. That somewhere is called "heaven/paradise" in Christian tradition.

[jimmyrrs]

Originally Posted by Sam

Is paradise heaven?
2 Corinthians 12:2 and 4 indicates to me that Paul used the terms "paradise" and "third heaven" interchangeably. I honestly don't know where that is located physically. We have an atmospheric heaven and a stellar heaven and a third heaven(paradise). I'm not sure where the "third heaven" is in relationship to the other 2 heavens.

Anyone in heaven today?
I know there are differences of opinion on this. It seems to me that both Paul and Peter expected death to be an exodus from their physical body and an entrance into a place or realm where God is. This is how I understand 2 Peter 1:13-15 where Peter refers to his death as a departure/exodus and putting off a tabernacle/tent. Paul uses the same imagery of putting off a tent/tabernacle in 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 and in Philippians 1:21-24 speaks of being with the Lord when he leaves his body.

So, in my opinion:
paradise and the third heaven are synonomous
and
folks are somewhere in the presence of the Lord after leaving their bodies. That somewhere is called "heaven/paradise" in Christian tradition.

As a funeral director I hear a lot of ministers say, don't worry Sis/Bro ??? is in the presence of the Lord today or don't cry, mom/dad is walking hand in hand with the Lord on that street of gold in heaven.
As a minister I think it is misleading to families to put their loved ones in heaven or hell.

With out going back to soul sleep, my understanding of death is when one dies their spirit (or as some may say breath of life) goes back to the Lord.
Where that is I'm not sure. I do agree it is where ever God is. God is ominpresent.
I'm not sold on the fact that there are souls (people) in heaven as of yet. Just because someone dies does not mean they are sent to hell or heaven at their time of death. Judgement has not taken place yet.
I know a few oneness ministers that think otherwise and I respect that.
John 14:1-3
Jesus said "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
Some will say this is at a persons death. Maybe, maybe not. It could also be when the Lord returns to take his bride home.
You did bring up a good thought about the heavens.