You CANNOT preach about SIN and NOT mention Grace

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Don't you mean "SHOULD NOT"?

no, I mean should now, as the change from traditional apostolic culture-based leadership is being threatened by all these youngsters believing they were duped after all this time are taking the reins?

Right...or did I miss something?

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

This thread reminds me of a sermon I heard years ago that Anthony Mangum preached...

He said that the old timers could preach you into hell to the point that you felt the fire and smelled the smoke..

But the difference between then and now is that back then when they did preach it as hard as they did... they did it with tears in their eyes.

That... my friend... is ALL the difference.

I um...don't get it.

[KWSS1976]

Carpenter you are so right about this you stated """"...yes, but by grace indeed. I have come to realize that (should I now say traditional in light of the other thread ) Apostolic leadership is terrified of Grace because it is like putting a loaded gun in the hand of those who have been taught that their holiness is somehow related to their appearance and ability to perform in the culture.

If it was preached more often it would put a big loop hole in the way the apostolic/pentecostal culture is. I go to a pentecostal church but do not agree with most on what is said my wife was rased upc so I go to church with her to make her happy and not fuel the fire...get my drift...

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Carpenter you are so right about this you stated """"...yes, but by grace indeed. I have come to realize that (should I now say traditional in light of the other thread ) Apostolic leadership is terrified of Grace because it is like putting a loaded gun in the hand of those who have been taught that their holiness is somehow related to their appearance and ability to perform in the culture.

If it was preached more often it would put a big loop hole in the way the apostolic/pentecostal culture is. I go to a pentecostal church but do not agree with most on what is said my wife was rased upc so I go to church with her to make her happy and not fuel the fire...get my drift...

I get your drift more than you know my friend. In fact, I bet we can compare notes...

There was a young man with a young family who has been in the UPC for quite a while who made a very controversial statement almost along these lines last night and it was dead silent, I knew 80% agreed but in no way would we voice it. I thought it was kind of funny actually my wife asked me why I was so uptight later...

Our little group would have been disbanded into other neighborhood groups drinking the cool-aid, had this gotten back to the pastor.

[KWSS1976]

Yea Carp you just try to tell someone like the pastor your view and he will tell you that you are not reading it correctly to go pray about it and read it again... I have had this said to me numerous times like I do not know how to read...

[Steve Epley]

I have always wondered why some men seem afraid of the word grace? Grace gives no license to sin it helps to sustain us from sin and is there to forgive us when we do.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I am so frustrated, we heard/watched the sermon on DVD last evening in church and the lesson from the pastor was on sin. Great, fine, I agree with most of it until he got to the point of talking about the power over sin through the empowerment of the spirit.

After all Paul did NOT say, "That which I would not, that I do..."

I was frustrated because the implication was that we have some meta-physical "power" to resist sin.

We have power over sin ONLY ONLY ONLY through the Grace of God. It is the Grace of God that empowers us and makes sin less significant than it otherwise would be. It is through Grace and Grace only that we are able to please Almighty God.

Grace was not mentioned not even one single time... Rather the message was that we can bulldog our way through resisting sin. Baloney.

...and some can sit there and tell me the Apostolic church has an appropriate understanding of the Grace of God, when in reality they are terrified that if they mention it we WILL continue in sin that grace may abound and God forbid!

I can and am now willing to admit that I indeed AM the most greasy Gracer of them all!

Carp, if you keep reading in Romans Paul tells us how we overcome sinful flesh/nature which in and of our ownselves we cannot do. And in 1 Cor Paul let's us know it is the GRACE of God that allows us to do his will. It is God working in us.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2 Cor 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




What do you think of this verse? Can you see how our works and God's grace go hand in hand?


1 Cor 15:10 -But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Here are more verses that teach that we cannot live and walk the Christian walk without the power of the Spirit to help us. It is his unmerited favor we are receiving when he helps us. Even Christ was assisted by the eternal Spirit on the cross. Heb 9:14

Eph 3:16, John 8:29, 2 Tim 3:16-17, Phi 4:3, Rom 8:37, 2 Cor 12:9, Mat 26:4, 1 Tim 4:8, 2 Peter 1:3, 1 John 5:4, Phi 2:13, 2 Cor 3:18, Heb 2:18

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Carp, if you keep reading in Romans Paul tells us how we overcome sinful flesh/nature which in and of our ownselves we cannot do. And in 1 Cor Paul let's us know it is the GRACE of God that allows us to do his will. It is God working in us.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2 Cor 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




What do you think of this verse? Can you see how our works and God's grace go hand in hand?


1 Cor 15:10 -But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Here are more verses that teach that we cannot live and walk the Christian walk without the power of the Spirit to help us. It is his unmerited favor we are receiving when he helps us. Even Christ was assisted by the eternal Spirit on the cross. Heb 9:14

Eph 3:16, John 8:29, 2 Tim 3:16-17, Phi 4:3, Rom 8:37, 2 Cor 12:9, Mat 26:4, 1 Tim 4:8, 2 Peter 1:3, 1 John 5:4, Phi 2:13, 2 Cor 3:18, Heb 2:18

Excellent mizpeh!