Grace Verse Legalism

[clgustaveson]

Dumb verse Thread...?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

If a mature falls into a sexual or lifestyle sin then there are bigger issues as you have said. That is nothing that should be looked over lightly. The latter where if they cut hair and such are not sins but in the perception of those that see it that way there should be some repent period I would guess. My point was that if a saint sins period most times they fell real conviction and change, but a habitual offender is different IMO cause it has now become a lifestyle issue. Make sense?

Does the concept of "Grace" applies to such a Christian?

Is he/she still a Christian?

What would have to happen for one to be considered a reprobate?

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by 1399

Does the concept of "Grace" applies to such a Christian?

Is he/she still a Christian?

What would have to happen for one to be considered a reprobate?

The Bible tells us a reprobate will believe a lie and be damned. The lie may possibly be that they believe they are justified in their sin or they don't recognize right and wrong. Psychopaths or Anti-social personality disorders would fit the description.

Blessings,
Rhoni

[cliff d]

Neo-Pharisees reject faith living because they love law. Instead of receiving the free gift of grace, they feel compelled to go to religious law school and after graduation they feel they can negotiate a legal relationship between themselves and God and also everyone else and God. Like a flashback to Acts 15, they encircle legalistic laws and yokes in the mandatory for salvation classification and harshly lay them upon the people of God.
They are proud and presume themselves to be experts in interpreting Biblical scriptures that are obscure and difficult to understand.

They can pull isolated scriptures from the Old Testament and even though they cannot find precept upon precept and line upon line to support their interpretations they insist that everyone should accept their superior decoding of all these scriptures.

With this kind of flawed exegesis they erect major doctrines that serve as criterion for fellowship. They seem to feel solely qualified to cross every t and dot every i for every pastor, teacher and saint, even on scriptures that are relative and broad in principle only.

[cliff d]

Neo-Pharisees truly believe that all prophecy or revelations of the scripture is for their private interpretations notwithstanding what the Apostle Peter said in II Peter 1:20-" knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

But after they are finished adding several reams of their own interpretations, no scripture is seen through a glass darkly, and nothing is known to them in part. Issues that are of minor consequence become major enough to the Neo-Pharisee that he feels it
his responsibility to disfellowship those that differ and designate these people as lost.

I'm not talking about important salvational issues that surround the death, burial and resurrection (repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost ), but rather I'm referring to scriptures that relate to things like dress standards. Unfortunately, these kinds of nonessential items become the nucleus of their legal theology.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by 1399

Does the concept of "Grace" applies to such a Christian?

Is he/she still a Christian?

What would have to happen for one to be considered a reprobate?

Christian is to be like Christ. When a person sins they are not like Christ until they repent and realign themselves with Him. To be a reprobate in my opinion is when you have made the choice to NOT turn back to Christ for forgivness, thus making the lifestyle change.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Most of what I learned about grace was from an AOG church and Indiana Wesleyan University professors who taught it and gave me books to read on Max Lucado teachings on the subject.

You are right...they lose "control" of their saints...not God's saints

Blessings, Rhoni

Oh boy! Least to say Max is not one of my favorites in this area. His view on Grace is well..... bad!

[mfblume]

The blood of Jesus is the embodiment of grace. It encapsulates the entire concept in the Bible.

Blood in the body is life and out of the body is death. So when Christ shed His blood it is the picture of death. What is so great about His death is that it was the result of His perfect and full obedience. He was obedient EVEN UNTO DEATH. And this makes the blood so ultimately precious.

Hebrews teaches that Christ entered into Heaven BY THAT BLOOD. in other words, reference to BY THE BLOOD means everything to do with His obedience and ultimate sacrifice. It is what made Him worthy as "Son of God". And that ultimate worthiness is given TO US that we might likewise ENTER into the holiest by this new and living way of Christ, Himself, as our door.

Legalism detracts from the grace God bestowed through the means of the blood of Jesus. While people seek to experience "Sunday go to meeting," they instead receive "Sunday go to BEATING" and get hammered for what they do not do enough of. Legalistic circles harp and rant on doing or not doing. And the people are not directed towards the work Christ did FOR THEM, but what they are not doing enough. So they leave thinking they are not as holy and righteous as they thought they were.

Meanwhile, circles that teach grace properly do not leave people with the impression they are not good enough due to lack of works, but leave them thinking they are MORE HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS than they thought they were, because it is Christ's holiness and righteousness they have received THROUGH THE BLOOD. While they've been beating themselves down due to thinking they are not DOING enough, the blood of Jesus has made them worthy all the while!

John the revelator sees no one worthy to go to the throne and take the sealed book. Then the lamb of God appears, and walks to the throne as the ONLY WORTHY ONE, and take the book. After this lamb is praised for redeeming man thereby, Rev 6 starts with one of the beasts calling John TO COME TO THE THRONE AND SEE THE BOOK. John walks up to the throne when formerly no one was able to go due to unworthiness. What happened between the inability of anyone to go and then John's walk to the throne? THE LAMB RESURRECTED AND REDEEMED THEM.

The worthiness of the lamb was given to John!

This does not condone sin as though people can sin and claim God's holiness. But if one sins and truly and genuinely repents, one has all that taken care of by the blood and they are as worthy as Christ! This needs to be preached and taught to souls who have been beaten down by themselves and by legalists as to not DOING ENOUGH.

The ministry may be encouraging more good works, which is good, but unless it is balanced with the understanding of our righteous STANDING with God through the blood, people will automatically think of legalistic lifestyles to please God. This happens sometimes when the ministry is not legalistic but has not taught grace properly! Non-legalistic ministries can leave people as legalists due to only ministering one side of the coin of maintaining good works. We have to preach about our righteousness through Christ by the blood to avoid this. Yes, preach the need to maintain good works, but also ensure we teach what the blood did and what we cannot do -- make us righteous and holy.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The blood of Jesus is the embodiment of grace. It encapsulates the entire concept in the Bible.

Blood in the body is life and out of the body is death. So when Christ shed His blood it is the picture of death. What is so great about His death is that it was the result of His perfect and full obedience. He was obedient EVEN UNTO DEATH. And this makes the blood so ultimately precious.

Hebrews teaches that Christ entered into Heaven BY THAT BLOOD. in other words, reference to BY THE BLOOD means everything to do with His obedience and ultimate sacrifice. It is what made Him worthy as "Son of God". And that ultimate worthiness is given TO US that we might likewise ENTER into the holiest by this new and living way of Christ, Himself, as our door.

Legalism detracts from the grace God bestowed through the means of the blood of Jesus. While people seek to experience "Sunday go to meeting," they instead receive "Sunday go to BEATING" and get hammered for what they do not do enough of. Legalistic circles harp and rant on doing or not doing. And the people are not directed towards the work Christ did FOR THEM, but what they are not doing enough. So they leave thinking they are not as holy and righteous as they thought they were.

Meanwhile, circles that teach grace properly do not leave people with the impression they are not good enough due to lack of works, but leave them thinking they are MORE HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS than they thought they were, because it is Christ's holiness and righteousness they have received THROUGH THE BLOOD. While they've been beating themselves down due to thinking they are not DOING enough, the blood of Jesus has made them worthy all the while!

John the revelator sees no one worthy to go to the throne and take the sealed book. Then the lamb of God appears, and walks to the throne as the ONLY WORTHY ONE, and take the book. After this lamb is praised for redeeming man thereby, Rev 6 starts with one of the beasts calling John TO COME TO THE THRONE AND SEE THE BOOK. John walks up to the throne when formerly no one was able to go due to unworthiness. What happened between the inability of anyone to go and then John's walk to the throne? THE LAMB RESURRECTED AND REDEEMED THEM.

The worthiness of the lamb was given to John!

This does not condone sin as though people can sin and claim God's holiness. But if one sins and truly and genuinely repents, one has all that taken care of by the blood and they are as worthy as Christ! This needs to be preached and taught to souls who have been beaten down by themselves and by legalists as to not DOING ENOUGH.

The ministry may be encouraging more good works, which is good, but unless it is balanced with the understanding of our righteous STANDING with God through the blood, people will automatically think of legalistic lifestyles to please God. This happens sometimes when the ministry is not legalistic but has not taught grace properly! Non-legalistic ministries can leave people as legalists due to only ministering one side of the coin of maintaining good works. We have to preach about our righteousness through Christ by the blood to avoid this. Yes, preach the need to maintain good works, but also ensure we teach what the blood did and what we cannot do -- make us righteous and holy.

WOW! Thank you for this awesome post! It made my day, and I truly felt the presence of the Holy Ghost as I read this. He confirmed this word in my spirit.

I'm going to bookmark this page, as I feel this is something I'm going to be referring back to often.

Thank you, Bro. Blume!

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The blood of Jesus is the embodiment of grace. It encapsulates the entire concept in the Bible.

Blood in the body is life and out of the body is death. So when Christ shed His blood it is the picture of death. What is so great about His death is that it was the result of His perfect and full obedience. He was obedient EVEN UNTO DEATH. And this makes the blood so ultimately precious.

Hebrews teaches that Christ entered into Heaven BY THAT BLOOD. in other words, reference to BY THE BLOOD means everything to do with His obedience and ultimate sacrifice. It is what made Him worthy as "Son of God". And that ultimate worthiness is given TO US that we might likewise ENTER into the holiest by this new and living way of Christ, Himself, as our door.

Legalism detracts from the grace God bestowed through the means of the blood of Jesus. While people seek to experience "Sunday go to meeting," they instead receive "Sunday go to BEATING" and get hammered for what they do not do enough of. Legalistic circles harp and rant on doing or not doing. And the people are not directed towards the work Christ did FOR THEM, but what they are not doing enough. So they leave thinking they are not as holy and righteous as they thought they were.

Meanwhile, circles that teach grace properly do not leave people with the impression they are not good enough due to lack of works, but leave them thinking they are MORE HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS than they thought they were, because it is Christ's holiness and righteousness they have received THROUGH THE BLOOD. While they've been beating themselves down due to thinking they are not DOING enough, the blood of Jesus has made them worthy all the while!

John the revelator sees no one worthy to go to the throne and take the sealed book. Then the lamb of God appears, and walks to the throne as the ONLY WORTHY ONE, and take the book. After this lamb is praised for redeeming man thereby, Rev 6 starts with one of the beasts calling John TO COME TO THE THRONE AND SEE THE BOOK. John walks up to the throne when formerly no one was able to go due to unworthiness. What happened between the inability of anyone to go and then John's walk to the throne? THE LAMB RESURRECTED AND REDEEMED THEM.

The worthiness of the lamb was given to John!

This does not condone sin as though people can sin and claim God's holiness. But if one sins and truly and genuinely repents, one has all that taken care of by the blood and they are as worthy as Christ! This needs to be preached and taught to souls who have been beaten down by themselves and by legalists as to not DOING ENOUGH.

The ministry may be encouraging more good works, which is good, but unless it is balanced with the understanding of our righteous STANDING with God through the blood, people will automatically think of legalistic lifestyles to please God. This happens sometimes when the ministry is not legalistic but has not taught grace properly! Non-legalistic ministries can leave people as legalists due to only ministering one side of the coin of maintaining good works. We have to preach about our righteousness through Christ by the blood to avoid this. Yes, preach the need to maintain good works, but also ensure we teach what the blood did and what we cannot do -- make us righteous and holy.

Awesome. Thank you.

Blessings, Rhoni