Grace Verse Legalism - Page 13

Rhoni · #**121** 10-29-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neck

Grace is what covers sin after you have received the promise and repent again for those sins.

Legalism does not cover sin it creates an ability for man to punish what man legislates as sin.

POTD

Rhoni · #**122** 10-29-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This might sound harsh as well, but here goes. I think that most pastors have a fair grip on what grace is, but only use it when cases come up where they need it. It also could be a thing the keep secret to keep control on saints or it might come down to they are not sure how to balance teaching on Grace with teachings on submission to authority (cause that is the candy stick they preach on).

With real Grace in the picture it can blow a hole in the 3-steppers mode of salvation. But even still I think a great disservice is being done. People live in fear cause they are scared of God striking them down for something when if they knew that Grace really exists (after salvation too) that allows them to repent and be free from it. Grace is one of the greatest messages in the Bible and the least preached in our circles.

**Disclaimer**
My church is pretty balanced when it comes to this, I feel.

Most of what I learned about grace was from an AOG church and Indiana Wesleyan University professors who taught it and gave me books to read on Max Lucado teachings on the subject.

You are right...they lose "control" of their saints...not God's saints

Blessings, Rhoni

Jack Shephard · #**123** 10-29-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

A friend and I were talking this past week about this very thing. The fact is...a sinner who is a whore or pedophile can walk in off the street and get the Holy Ghost and they put modest clothing on them, rejoice and use them freely. You let a saint "who should have known better" slip and fall, make a mistake or sin and you are forever damned to "prove yourself" and even then - you are not worthy to be used. This is not just about me that I am talking...the discussion was done with another leadership person who was dealt the same hand and is the one who stated the above dilemna.

Blessings, Rhoni

This is funny. This does happen all too often. I know that there are churches out there that will not use someone unless you have been in church for more than 6 months. Also if you fall you have to wait 1 year. So it is a weird situation. I am of the mind that if a season saint falls they know what they are doing is wrong so often times the conviction is greater. If a person loses their awe of God then it can cause them to fall and no length of time is appropriate to wait before returning to a ministry. The lose of awe can happen to seasoned saints and infant saints too. Stay in awe and a person probably won't fall and if they do they will have conviction set it and they will make it right, at least this is what I have seen.

Withdrawn · #**124** 10-29-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This is funny. This does happen all too often. I know that there are churches out there that will not use someone unless you have been in church for more than 6 months. Also if you fall you have to wait 1 year. So it is a weird situation. I am of the mind that if a season saint falls they know what they are doing is wrong so often times the conviction is greater. If a person loses their awe of God then it can cause them to fall and no length of time is appropriate to wait before returning to a ministry. The lose of awe can happen to seasoned saints and infant saints too. Stay in awe and a person probably won't fall and if they do they will have conviction set it and they will make it right, at least this is what I have seen.

Explain "FALL" for me, please!

Does "fall" mean letting one of the standards down for a time (like wearing shorts on vacation)? Is that what we're talking about? Or is it a matter of the heart, whereby a man may from the outside appear to be holding to all the standards, but in secret he's addicted to internet pornography? In the second instance, how would anyone ever know if the clothesline is still in place? There are no degrees of sinful behavior. And if we start saying that such and such is a punishable offense and you should be sat down for such and such time, then we're putting degrees on it. I understand that we don't want a drunkard or a pervert leading the choir or preaching (or whatever), but those are more lifestyle issues that point to a deeper spiritual problem. But trimming hair, wearing tennis shoes, stuff like this is ridiculous! IMHO.

Jack Shephard · #**125** 10-29-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaamez

Explain "FALL" for me, please!

Does "fall" mean letting one of the standards down for a time (like wearing shorts on vacation)? Is that what we're talking about? Or is it a matter of the heart, whereby a man may from the outside appear to be holding to all the standards, but in secret he's addicted to internet pornography? In the second instance, how would anyone ever know if the clothesline is still in place? There are no degrees of sinful behavior. And if we start saying that such and such is a punishable offense and you should be sat down for such and such time, then we're putting degrees on it. I understand that we don't want a drunkard or a pervert leading the choir or preaching (or whatever), but those are more lifestyle issues that point to a deeper spiritual problem. But trimming hair, wearing tennis shoes, stuff like this is ridiculous! IMHO.

If a mature falls into a sexual or lifestyle sin then there are bigger issues as you have said. That is nothing that should be looked over lightly. The latter where if they cut hair and such are not sins but in the perception of those that see it that way there should be some repent period I would guess. My point was that if a saint sins period most times they fell real conviction and change, but a habitual offender is different IMO cause it has now become a lifestyle issue. Make sense?

Steve Epley · #**126** 10-29-2008, 01:39 PM

I feel your pain to have been so mistreated by heartless dictators. I lady of the mindset of posters here told me once you are like Paul you hate women. I thought at least I am in good company.

Jack Shephard · #**127** 10-29-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I feel your pain to have been so mistreated by heartless dictators. I lady of the mindset of posters here told me once you are like Paul you hate women. I thought at least I am in good company.

you talking to me?