Grace Verse Legalism - Page 11

cliff d · #**101** 10-29-2008, 10:24 AM

Rhoni I found this quote in a book published by Bridge Publishing called Azusa Street Frank Bartleman on page 18:

My concern was chiefly for the Holiness people, that they might not be passed by, and lose the blessing. I wrote in my diary at this time the following observations( a warning to the Pentecostal people ):
The Holiness people are loaded down to the waters edge with a spirit of prejudice and phariseeism. But dare we cut ourselves off so easily from other members of the body? We may cut ourselves off from God by our spiritual pride, while He may cause the weakest to repent, and go through to victory. The work in our hearts must go deeper than we ever have experienced, deep enough to destroy sectarian prejudice, party spirit,
etc.,on all sides.
The work of revival seems to have started outside the Holiness churches proper. God can perfect those whom he chooses. The Holiness people are to proud of their standing.
Too confident of their position, and condition also. He may need to pass them by.
They must also repent. God may humble them by working in other places. And history repeats itself. Let the Pentecostal people beware.

Rhoni · #**102** 10-29-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

26: Such a High Priest meets our need - one who is holy, blameless, pure, set aprat from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once and for all when he offerred himself. For the law appoints high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after teh law, appointed the Son, who has been made forever perfect.

This is why my salvation is "complete in Him."

I am not more saved once I evolve into being clean shaven.
I am not more saved once I throw away my shorts.

Dong these things can help me with my daily walk with the Lord in the way that there is a Holy commitment involved, if I do these things to honor the Lord.

The minute the intent of my heart becomes to preserve my salvation or to please others by doing these things, my commitment is vain religiosity.

The UPCI churches I've attended make it impossible to do these things for the sole reason of honoring the Lord because it is expected and often mandated-- violating the Spirit of Grace by which we have been called.

Yes, I agree and it even goes deeper than that. The one minister who made the difference in my adult life was Rev. LW Schmidt[now deceased]. We worked under him as "Interns" from JCM. He told me what he desired as far as an active deaf ministry and then set me loose with no limitations to do what I felt needed to be done. He trusted my walk with God, my expertise in the matter, and he respected my opinions. I gave him exactly what he wanted, a self-supporting, active deaf ministry with deaf people attending and filled with the Holy Ghost.

This was the only leadership male that did not try to control, manipulate, and squash me into "SUBMISSION". He let me function in the area of my passion without making conditions to do other things in order to function in my passion. He could have wrote the book that Warren wrote about empowering people to work in the area of their passion. UPCI only let you work in the area of your passion if you would "submit" to cleaning toilets and working center of interest first. Control and manipulation is what the law was all about to the Pharisees. Women's clothing was not the only area of control exerted upon females in leadership.

Blessings, Rhoni

cliff d · #**103** 10-29-2008, 10:27 AM

This is a very telling and applicable message for many in the Pentecostal church today.

Jack Shephard · #**104** 10-29-2008, 10:37 AM

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace? I haven't heard it preached much in the chuch except towards the sinners. "God's Grace will cover any sin you have"...but the saints live in fear or losing their salvation. Does that make sense?

cliff d · #**105** 10-29-2008, 10:48 AM

Most pastors are afraid to preach it for fear their saints will go off the deep end.

iceniez · #**106** 10-29-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliff d

Most pastors are afraid to preach it for fear their saints will go off the deep end.

That is so true. Then they would loose control of their people. Another reason could be that they them selves have not really understood it themselves the whole movement has become so traditionalized and for generations it has been handed down.

Jack Shephard · #**107** 10-29-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliff d

Most pastors are afraid to preach it for fear their saints will go off the deep end.

Rightly so, but there is a balance in the teaching to. If the pastor were to preach it correctly though the saints would clearly know that Grace is not a license to sin and get away with it.

iceniez · #**108** 10-29-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Rightly so, but there is a balance in the teaching to. If the pastor were to preach it correctly though the saints would clearly know that Grace is not a license to sin and get away with it.

Amen.

Jermyn Davidson · #**109** 10-29-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace? I haven't heard it preached much in the chuch except towards the sinners. "God's Grace will cover any sin you have"...but the saints live in fear or losing their salvation. Does that make sense?

I don't believe Bible teaches OSAS, but I've experienced preaching and teaching that goes to the the extreme in the other direction.

The Bible teaches us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

The Bible teaches us that we are not to have the spirit of fear.

The Bible teaches a whole lot about faith.

Somewhere in all of that we have to live a life of Biblical balance.

Jack Shephard · #**110** 10-29-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

I don't believe Bible teaches OSAS, but I've experienced preaching and teaching that goes to the the extreme in the other direction.

The Bible teaches us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

The Bible teaches us that we are not to have the spirit of fear.

The Bible teaches a whole lot about faith.

Somewhere in all of that we have to live a life of Biblical balance.

Agreed. . . Not sure but I don't think that any one stepper on here really believes OSAS. I don't.