Political Q

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

NOt that it's a justification, but a baby has no choice in its own murder under abortion. A soldier willingly joined the armed forces knowing war was a possibility.

Yeah I think that the situation with abortion and a whimsical warmonger is not comparable, for your dilemma-- akin to comparing apples and rutabagas.

Most folks I know DON'T vote the Party Line just for the sake of voting the Party Line. They usually have convictions (some shallow, some deep, some nonsense) to go along with WHO they choose.

I don't suggest you vote Republican just for the sake of voting Republican. Vote Republican because you believe in Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin to be competent leaders, taking the country in the direction you want it go.

If you don't think that way, then don't vote for them. You will not be the only Republican NOT voting for Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin.

This isn't a Heaven or Hell issue. Don't let someone use their religion to manipulate your politics.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by 1399

This isn't a Heaven or Hell issue.

Some of us believe that it is a sin to go against our convictions. Just because it might not be H or H for you doesn't mean it can't be for the next guy. We will all be held accountable at judgment for EVERY DECISION we made.

I don't suggest you vote Republican just for the sake of voting Republican. Vote Republican because you believe in Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin to be competent leaders, taking the country in the direction you want it go.

If you don't think that way, then don't vote for them. You will not be the only Republican NOT voting for Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin.

Keep in mind that defeating Obama and his blatantly destructive policy proposals, and positioning Sarah Palin for a prominent political career, are both worthy goals and ends unto themselves.

I would also like to point out the radical leftists in this country aren't going to experience some crisis of conscience over one or two party planks and sit this one out. They are going to be foaming at the mouth and first in line to vote for Obama. Because they are all about defeating YOU. At some point we must consider whether the one-sided requirement of the purity of the candidate isn't self-defeating.

Don't let someone use their religion to manipulate your politics.

Amen. And don't let someone use YOUR religion to manipulate you in ANY WAY AT ALL.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by 1399

Yeah I think that the situation with abortion and a whimsical warmonger is not comparable, for your dilemma-- akin to comparing apples and rutabagas.

Most folks I know DON'T vote the Party Line just for the sake of voting the Party Line. They usually have convictions (some shallow, some deep, some nonsense) to go along with WHO they choose.

I don't suggest you vote Republican just for the sake of voting Republican. Vote Republican because you believe in Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin to be competent leaders, taking the country in the direction you want it go.

If you don't think that way, then don't vote for them. You will not be the only Republican NOT voting for Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin.

This isn't a Heaven or Hell issue. Don't let someone use their religion to manipulate your politics.

I would agree with this to a point, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with the statement about using religion to manipulate your politics.

I find it hard to believe that any Christian could vote for a candidate who openly defies their morals.

This is where many folks find themselves on the horns of a dilemma - sometimes a candidate seems to have a better economic plan, but doesn't support their stance on moral issues, such as gay marriage or abortion.

What does one do?

Well, if you go back to scripture, you'll find that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, He will provide for us, I've never seen the righteous forsaken, etc. so according to pure scripture, I should vote my morals, which in turn, is my religion.

Make sense?

However, if BOTH candidates espouse something that goes against your morals, you're in a jam!

[Aquila]

Bro. Eastman, I sincerely know how you feel.

I don’t classify abortion and war as being alike. First I’ll share my view on war….

War is unbecoming of a Christian people. In the OT God was focused on an earthly nation and therefore war was inevitable. However, under the New Covenant God’s focus is on a called out body of all nations, the Church. Christians do not owe undying loyalty to any earthly nation, only the Kingdom of God. Earthly nations often lie, deceive the population, and hide their motives. For a Christian to engage in or participate in war risks allowing the government to use a Christian as a pawn for it’s earthly purposes. Also on an ethical level…how can a Christian in good conscience kill unchristian people relegating them to Hell for all eternity? The Christian is called to missional evangelism….not war. How can a Christian engage and kill another Christian on the battle field if their two earthly nations are at war to preserve earthly interests or resources? Christianity began it’s apostacy once it was adopted as a state religion of Rome. When Christian bishops became pawns of the emporer to motivate Christian people to commit atrocities in the name of Rome the church became just another earthly institution….a tool of an earthly government. Perhaps in the face of an invasion war would be justified to protect our society…but wars as they are waged today aren’t crystal clear enough for me to feel comfortable advocating for them all the time. Christians do well to avoid war, advocate for peace & diplomacy, and when earthly nations determine to go to war….Christians should remove themselves from the frey and PRAY. That’s my opinion regarding war.

Now I’ll share my opinion regarding abortion…

Abortion is a terrible sin. Given context outside of preserving the life and health of a mother it may even be considered murder on a moral level. However, abortion has always been with us as a society and will always be with us as a society. Pregnancy is a complicated matter. There isn’t any similar condition in nature where two human lives are so intertwined. Therefore legally, one person’s rights have to trump the others. Many believe that the child’s right to life should trump the mother’s right over her own body and health. Others believe that the mother’s rights over her own body and her health decisions should belong soley to her. Government is confronted with a problem….does it grant a woman full rights over her own body or does it protect the unborn? If Government engages in efforts to protect the unborn it has to police women’s health decisions and essentially force them to give birth unless abortion is absolutely necessary. That’s an uncomfortable position for government. That is why the Government has decided to place the choice to abort and RESPONSIBILITY of that choice soley on individual women who might choose it. I don’t believe we’ll ever become a “pro-life” nation in the sense of our laws. I do think that social conscience and social efforts to prevent abortion can bring the abortion rate significantly lower through evangelism, charity, education, and yes…even contraceptives. I don’t think the government is adequately equipped to properly address the abortion issue. I think we can handle this social issue privately through private means and institutions.

I work for the government. I’m comfortable with it and its procedures and the oversight available through public record. I’m not afraid of it. Because I’ve worked for government now for a few years I’ve grown to believe that the need for government ebbs and flows. Nothing is static. Sometimes we need less government for growth and prosparity. Sometimes economic circumstances, like the weather, change and government intervention is necessary. Dogmatic ideologues on both sides give a false impression. Dogmatic liberals will tell you that government intervention is always needed for a just society… dogmatic conservatives will say that it’s absolutely never needed. Both are wrong. I feel in my gut that right now Uncle Sam needs to crack down on private sector abuse of the system. More regulation in several areas is needed. A more targetted tax policy is needed. When America begins to boom again deregulation will once more swing into action and the cycle will repeat itself. So I feel more comfortable voting for Obama if I were to choose between the two primary candidates. McCain is offering more of the same. He’s an okay person I guess (I have beef with how he treated his first wife), but McCain isn’t offering much that will help individual families that are struggling.

Also on a sentimental note (that doesn’t really matter, just a personal inclusion here)….if Obama is elected; being the first black President will make him a mile stone in American history. It will close the door on an era and open a new era where Americans just feel a little more equal. I think he will do surprisingly well on some things and yes…make some mistakes on others. But I think that overall…he’s shown the best wisdom regarding his chosen advisors. I’d like to look back at a modern day Abraham Lincoln, the first black President, and proudly tell my son…I broke ranks with the status quo…and we made history.

I’ve strongly considered voting Libertarian. But I’m not impressed by their candidate. It would be a vote on principles or protest to provoke me to go that far. I still might. I’m still contemplating the idea.

Those are merely my thoughts and opinions. I know good men who disagree with me. They will argue that my opinions are WRONG and have labled me UNCHRISTIAN for them. But that’s the cross I bare for being true to my personal beliefs and feelings. If you choose to vote Obama…don’t tell anyone. They’ll slander you. Keep it close to your chest. Or you like me will be dubbed…the unforgiven.

[OnTheFritz]

Originally Posted by 1399

Yeah I think that the situation with abortion and a whimsical warmonger is not comparable, for your dilemma-- akin to comparing apples and rutabagas.

Most folks I know DON'T vote the Party Line just for the sake of voting the Party Line. They usually have convictions (some shallow, some deep, some nonsense) to go along with WHO they choose.

I don't suggest you vote Republican just for the sake of voting Republican. Vote Republican because you believe in Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin to be competent leaders, taking the country in the direction you want it go.

If you don't think that way, then don't vote for them. You will not be the only Republican NOT voting for Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin.

This isn't a Heaven or Hell issue. Don't let someone use their religion to manipulate your politics.

Great post.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Some of us believe that it is a sin to go against our convictions. Just because it might not be H or H for you doesn't mean it can't be for the next guy. We will all be held accountable at judgment for EVERY DECISION we made.

Listen, the same scale that the Lord will weigh me on He will weigh you on. God is not a respecter of persons. Voting (R), (D), (L) or not voting at all does not determine the intents of your heart. The intents of your heart do determine how you vote. This is why the Bible says how that it is not what is on the inside that defiles, but it's what on the outside.

In other words, GOD ALONE judges a man's decision to vote for whoever or not vote at all. His Judgment will not be by some arbitrarily set rule, but by His own Righteous Judgment.

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Keep in mind that defeating Obama and his blatantly destructive policy proposals, and positioning Sarah Palin for a prominent political career, are both worthy goals and ends unto themselves.

Well you are entitled to your opinion.

There are many, experts and common folk alike, who do not believe that Sen. Obama's policy proposals are destructive. This Republican is one of those common folk.

As for positioning Sarah Palin? God raises and sets down-- that's if we really want to mix religion and politics....

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

I would also like to point out the radical leftists in this country aren't going to experience some crisis of conscience over one or two party planks and sit this one out. They are going to be foaming at the mouth and first in line to vote for Obama. Because they are all about defeating YOU. At some point we must consider whether the one-sided requirement of the purity of the candidate isn't self-defeating.

So are we suggesting that a person who wants to mix religion and politics simply look the other way when they find a candidate that does not match their religious ideas exactly?

If so, Black Christians have been doing that in this country for years now.

It's called liberty-- a lifestyle that Christ has called us to.

It's ok to do so. Just don't judge your brothers and sisters who don't come to the same political decision as yours.

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Amen. And don't let someone use YOUR religion to manipulate you in ANY WAY AT ALL.

One of the main reasons why I am not voting Republican this year. Our current President has used us and his Administration has been everything except for forthright and honest-- from the Sec of Def to the Atty Gen and beyond. Corruption becomes this group of clowns.