Phariseeism

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Again if TOP is right I have to ask why don't they all go back to being Trinitarians even Roman Catholics? Why not look back on our "spiritual fathers" to left the Trinity as rebellious backsliders? Don't DO as the Trinitarians did but obey them.

BUMP for The Old Paths and Steve Epley

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW by this thread is this a passive admittance to being pharisees?

Anyways
Mar 7:6 And he said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
Mar 7:7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
Mar 7:8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men."
Mar 7:9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.'
Mar 7:11 But you say, 'If a man tells his father or his mother, Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban' (that is, given to God)--
Mar 7:12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
Mar 7:13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do."

Mat 16:12 Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Mat 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
Mat 23:14 (OMITTED TEXT)
Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

John called them a brood of vipers
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Mat 21:33 "Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country.
Mat 21:34 When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to get his fruit.
Mat 21:35 And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them.
Mat 21:37 Finally he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
Mat 21:38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.'
Mat 21:39 And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mat 21:40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
Mat 21:41 They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons."
Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
Mat 21:43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.
Mat 21:44 And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him."
Mat 21:45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.

Gee, I wonder what kind of fruits the Pharisees did not have

Bump for TheOldPaths

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Barb

I don't know why you say that. I can't imagine anyone who likes being in bondage. Heavens...God saved us from it. Why would anyone want to leave the bondage of sin to live in bondage in the Church?!

Well, evidently some do. Some folks are only happy in a strict church with a strict pastor and strict standards. If Pastor says dont wear red, they'll stop wearing red... if he says no sandals or open toed shoes, then they'll get rid of open toed shoes... if he tells all the men to shave their beards off, they shave them off --- and not once do they allow themselves to even ask themselves "why?"... "Why are we doing this?" "What does the Bible say about this?" etc..

Too often, they can't trust themselves to walk in the New Testament liberty we have under Christ, and cant trust themselves to have he discipline needed to live right before God, so they welcome it when an ultra-strict church and pastor puts the yoke upon their necks. They feel thats their best chance to make sure they dont miss heaven. Personally, if that's how they wish to "work out their own salvation", I have no problem with that. What bothers me is when some of these people feel like if you're not as strict as they are and dont have the same convictions they do on certain issues, then you're backslidden and wont make it to heaven.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mfblume

There is a big difference, in some instances. The Pharisees taught actual Bible truths. Some pastors teach things not found anywhere in the bible. Jesus did not refer to things taught that were not in the bible when he said to obey the pharisees. What Jesus meant was the Pharisees would not do what they, themselves, taught! THAT is what made them hypocrites.

Let not anyone take those words of Jesus and say that preachers can rightfully demand us to do things the bible does not teach.

Ding ding ding!!
Ladies and gentlmen... we have our post of the day.

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

That verse says nothing about anti-biblical traditions; and in no way does it justify anti-biblical traditions.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Ding ding ding!!
Ladies and gentlmen... we have our post of the day.


That verse says nothing about anti-biblical traditions; and in no way does it justify anti-biblical traditions.

Exactly. It was the tradition the Apostles taught by word or epistle....

Im waiting still for a reply from TOP to my posts. Does it not seem like his thread and initial post is a tacit admission to being a pharisee?

[Praxeas]

(Mat 15:1) Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,

(Mat 15:2) "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat."

(Mat 15:3) He answered them, "And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

(Mat 15:4) For God commanded, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.'

(Mat 15:5) But you say, 'If anyone tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God,

(Mat 15:6) he need not honor his father.' So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

(Mat 15:7) You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

(Mat 15:8) "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

(Mat 15:9) in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'"

(Mat 15:10) And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand:

(Mat 15:11) it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."

(Mat 15:12) Then the disciples came and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?"

(Mat 15:13) He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.

(Mat 15:14) Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

Maybe we don't have the revival we want because there are too many "traditions of the elders" and far too many "Pharisees" trying to force us to conform to them?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

. Does it not seem like his thread and initial post is a tacit admission to being a pharisee?

It does, in a way... which is strange.

Why woud any Christian today want to identify themselves with the Pharisees?

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Maybe we don't have the revival we want because there are too many "traditions of the elders" and far too many "Pharisees" trying to force us to conform to them?

Or because to many people waste their time on forums rather than witnessing to strangers on the streets?

[Praxeas]

BTW
1Co 11:2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

Traditions. A.T. Robertson
Paradosis (tradition) from paradidōmi (paredōka, first aorist active indicative) is an old word and merely something handed on from one to another. The thing handed on may be bad as in Mat_15:2. (which see) and contrary to the will of God (Mar_7:8.) or it may be wholly good as here. There is a constant conflict between the new and the old in science, medicine, law, theology. The obscurantist rejects all the new and holds to the old both true and untrue. New truth must rest upon old truth and is in harmony with it.

"Tradition" here simply means a transmission or passing down of TRUTH. Not merely "traditions we've been doing for the last 50 years biblical or not". Sorry guys but you are out of gas

What did Paul pass on to them?
1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
"The gospel I preached", "the word I preached", "in accordance with the scriptures", "That Christ died for our sins".

That he was buried, raised on the third day....."in accordance with the scriptures"

Folks what you see going on in this forum is a mis use of scriptures to support the idea that ANYTHING they preach must be obeyed regardless of if it is bible or not. But Paul when he refers to the gospel NEVER has in mind his own inventions but has in mind the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ, in accordance to Scriptures.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Or because to many people waste their time on forums rather than witnessing to strangers on the streets?

That too, welcome to the club of hypocrites.