UPC - "Apostolic" Wesleyan Holiness Standards

[ThePastorsCoach]

This is what I have always understood and if the truth is different than this - can you give me historical documentation that what I have posted is NOT TRUE? I copied this from another thread I was posting on.

Most of the UPC and "Apostolic" "standards" come from the Wesleyan "Holiness" movement in the 1800's that did not even believe in the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or speaking in tongues or Baptism in Jesus Name. THEY WERE TRINITY!!! This is the origin of what you teach your people. You might need to pick up a book or two and research this!

Suzanna Wesley (a sick and depressed woman with many children) was the originator of most of these legalistic rules, regulations, yokes and bondages that you guys call "standards" and put on people!
You might need to remember that they were preaching these things before electricity, lights, indoor plumbing, air conditioning, automobiles, airplanes, space travel, and all the conveniences of modern life. If you are going to preach all the "standards" you do and send everyone else to hell for not living Wesleyan "standards" then you need to preach against modern conveniences like the Amish do. Get your ungodly buttons off your fancy store bought dresses and turn the radio off and get you a BUGGY to drive!

Now I said it - I will let you guys have at it.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

This is what I have always understood and if the truth is different than this - can you give me historical documentation that what I have posted is NOT TRUE? I copied this from another thread I was posting on.

Most of the UPC and "Apostolic" "standards" come from the Wesleyan "Holiness" movement in the 1800's that did not even believe in the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or speaking in tongues or Baptism in Jesus Name. THEY WERE TRINITY!!! This is the origin of what you teach your people. You might need to pick up a book or two and research this!

Suzanna Wesley (a sick and depressed woman with many children) was the originator of most of these legalistic rules, regulations, yokes and bondages that you guys call "standards" and put on people!
You might need to remember that they were preaching these things before electricity, lights, indoor plumbing, air conditioning, automobiles, airplanes, space travel, and all the conveniences of modern life. If you are going to preach all the "standards" you do and send everyone else to hell for not living Wesleyan "standards" then you need to preach against modern conveniences like the Amish do. Get your ungodly buttons off your fancy store bought dresses and turn the radio off and get you a BUGGY to drive!

Now I said it - I will let you guys have at it.

While there might be some truth behind the idea that Suzanna Wesley (indirectly through her son) was the orignator of legalistic rules, yokes and bondages....it certainly had nothing to do with cut or uncut hair.

John Wesley's Bible Commentary from centuries past recognized that Paul spoke in 1 Corinthians 11 of custom for that time.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Newman

While there might be some truth behind the idea that Suzanna Wesley (indirectly through her son) was the orignator of legalistic rules, yokes and bondages....it certainly had nothing to do with cut or uncut hair.

John Wesley's Bible Commentary from centuries past recognized that Paul spoke in 1 Corinthians 11 of custom for that time.

tsk tsk tsk.

AB never mentioned cut hair either.

Try again, please?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Newman

While there might be some truth behind the idea that Suzanna Wesley (indirectly through her son) was the orignator of legalistic rules, yokes and bondages....it certainly had nothing to do with cut or uncut hair.

John Wesley's Bible Commentary from centuries past recognized that Paul spoke in 1 Corinthians 11 of custom for that time.

The Bible Methodists of today were an offshoot of the Wesleyans and still hold to a strong code of separation.

Probably no relevance...just sharing information...

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by Barb

The Bible Methodists of today were an offshoot of the Wesleyans and still hold to a strong code of separation.

Probably no relevance...just sharing information...

This is true Barb and so was the organization I was born and raised in - The Church of God of Prophecy and the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and Pentecostal Holiness movements all came out of Wesleyan Holiness tradition. Most have dropped most of the "standards" but do recognize the history of the "holiness" movement and the Wesley's.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

This is true Barb and so was the organization I was born and raised in - The Church of God of Prophecy and the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and Pentecostal Holiness movements all came out of Wesleyan Holiness tradition. Most have dropped most of the "standards" but do recognize the history of the "holiness" movement and the Wesley's.

Some of the Bible Methodists I've come in contact with recently 'look' more Apostolic than some I go to church with, and that is a fact.

[freeatlast]

We have a Weslayn Methodist in our town that is the fastest growin gthing in our area. 300 to 5000 over the last ten years.

This past Christmas their Christams musical program was held at the local sports arean that seats 10,000 They sold the available seats for 4 nights

As far as our kind of Standards though..they do not espouse any of them that I know of

[Newman]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

tsk tsk tsk.

AB never mentioned cut hair either.

Try again, please?

Well, I think the issues of TV and pants on women probably weren't directives from Weslyn either. These 3 standards (hair, pants and TV) are more likely most closely assoicated with the organization (as opposed to other parts of the manual and unwritten rules).

In fact, we just more or less froze these "standards" from a particular period of time just like the Amish who got frozen a century (or two?) earlier. (Emma could fill us in).

[Thumper]

In Canada the Wesleyan Methodists united under the banner of the "United Church of Canada". Whatever holiness standards they may have had have long since been abandoned. I can't even imagine them even being viewed as christian by just about anyone's standard

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Thumper

In Canada the Wesleyan Methodists united under the banner of the "United Church of Canada". Whatever holiness standards they may have had have long since been abandoned. I can't even imagine them even being viewed as christian by just about anyone's standard

That is the truth!

Actually, it was the Methodists, Presbyterians, & Episcapalions who united to form the United Church of Canada.

I was Christened in a United Church as a baby.