CA. Western Dist.aftermath of WPF- hardly a dent

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Well for one, I actually live in the district in question. So, unlike most of the people responding on this thread, it does actually affect me.

Second, could you show me where I ever "rejoiced"?

OMG!!!

I NEVER said YOU rejoiced!

I said it is SAD that SOME rejoice.

Dizzy, it affects all of us, not just the WD.

It would be wrong to assume that what happens in the WD has no impact on me.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BarbieGirl

Here we go again......Dan knows EVERYTHING.

Here we go again ... more nothingness ...

Put away the pom-poms and pick up a bat kid....

[BarbieGirl]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Shoo fly.

The rest of us are trying to have a discussion.

I see you have chosen not to respond to my comment to you on.....if you truly are part of the UPC you should be ashamed of yourself for speaking against it when you have CHOSEN to be a part of the organization..

[SDG]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

I agree

The secrecy can produce a lack of trust.

Is it too much in an org that is increasing demanding more fees and offerings from it's constituents to be forthright?

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I hope for growth too ... but comparing incomplete stats which do not include the losses of the newly formed SoCal give a warped picture of the reality ...

we're only six months into 2008 ... the effects of this cannot be measured especially since the org never reports how many ministers are dropped because non-payment ....

True! These are early returns, but things appear to be OK for the WD! This is significant because they are probably the district most effected by the split. Many districts have no losses. Long live the UPCI!

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

OMG!!!

I NEVER said YOU rejoiced!

I said it is SAD that SOME rejoice.

Dizzy, it affects all of us, not just the WD.

It would be wrong to assume that what happens in the WD has no impact on me.

Although I did not agree with some of their stands, Booker and Wilson were some of my favorites from the UPC. I think they will be missed. Did Mark Morgan also go with the WPF?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BarbieGirl

I see you have chosen not to respond to my comment to you on.....if you truly are part of the UPC you should be ashamed of yourself for speaking against it when you have CHOSEN to be a part of the organization..

The U.S. allows abortion and other laws you disagree w ...

Does this mean you should not speak out against such things ...

Haven't you chosen to be an American ... should you be ashamed ...

These gaping holes in logic don't help your position.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

If weathering the storm is the objective than fine.

Yet this type of stat reporting has been going on for years Deanna.

PP is fed up ... I believe w/ an established pattern throughout the org of mis-representing deeper issues ...

In over a decade the org may have a net gain of 800 plus ministers ...

Now when I was in the org .... for almost 30 years we were always told about explosive growth and yet one never got the full picture.

This is symptomatic of a bigger problem that is decades old.

Dan, I don't know everything that goes on in this organization, nor do I want to. And a lot of what I do know, doesn't make me happy. I think I have been pretty clear in that past that I am not a hard-liner by any means.

But, this thread was posted regarding the WD, which I am currently a part of. Whether or not it should have been is a moot point now. Pretty much immediately it became target practice.

Some comments were made about the distribution of the information, which I thought needed to be clarified. Also, comments were made that seem to target people that I know as liars. Should I just have kept my mouth shut on this stuff, as I typically do?

I have never made my self out to be a cheerleader for the UPC, and I never will. However, I do like fairness, and the thread seemed a little out of whack in that department. Carry-on..

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

True! These are early returns, but things appear to be OK for the WD! This is significant because they are probably the district most effected by the split. Many districts have no losses. Long live the UPCI!

You see this is where common sense comes in ... someone is not being forthright ...

The WPF is claiming certain numbers and the UPCI is too...

and they are not matching ...

[StMark]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Is this a list of ALL the churches and ministers that left. What is the parameters used in this? What dates are these numbers from, and when are they to?

The reason I ask is that it seems that there are a few names missing on the list.

As far as I can tell Matt, this is a list of ALL the churches that
left in the North.

From what i can see, this is not a list of the ministers that
left but rather the churches and it looks accurate from what I
can tell.

There are churches in Southern CA. that left too that i see are not
listed, but far fewer churches left in the south anyways.