CA. Western Dist.aftermath of WPF- hardly a dent

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Minister_WD

Western District (CA.)currently has a total of 153 churches. In 2006, the district (less SoCal) had 164.

SoCal had 90 churches in 2006. I don't know their current number.

Here are the stats PP ...

To have a fairer picture we need SoCals present numbers.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The angst is palpable.

First of all, I haven't used the word "lie" so please retract your last sentence. The spin I referred to earlier was from a much more powerful source than the WD.

Secondly, I just think it's sad that we lose 17 churches and people rejoice over it.

BTW, I think the choice to leave was good for those who left, and for the UPC. But you haven't read all 7000 of my posts, so you wouldn't know that.

I don't think anybody is rejoicing over the 17 churches that have left the district. They're just saying that those churches weren't actively involved in the district functions anyway, so their absence has caused minimal damage.

There isn't the dismal effect some were hoping for. That's all!

There is HOPE that the increased unity will bring additional growth! Unity matters, doesn't it?

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The complete lack of honesty surrounding the fallout from those departing to the WPF is shameful.

This is more than just spin.

This is untruthful manipulation of facts.

If you were not referring to the WD, considering that you are responding on a thread about it, you might want to clarify yourself. And if what you said ( untruthful manipulation of facts) is not considered the description of a lie, I don't think you are so immune to spin yourself.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The angst is palpable.

First of all, I haven't used the word "lie" so please retract your last sentence. The spin I referred to earlier was from a much more powerful source than the WD.

Secondly, I just think it's sad that we lose 17 churches and people rejoice over it.

BTW, I think the choice to leave was good for those who left, and for the UPC. But you haven't read all 7000 of my posts, so you wouldn't know that.

I have been around for over a year now and have read more than my fair share of your posts. Most make me sad.

Why on earth would you want to waste your time analyzing these stats. What is the big deal, one preacher makes a probably ill-advised attempt to show people that they were wrong in their assumptions about the WD self-destructing. Why do you have so much venom in your heart over it?

For the second time, the WD did not publish these stats, they were released to a few people, for specific reasons, none of which has anything to do with any of us.

Personally, I think WDMinister has once again posted things that were meant to be confidential, and whoever he is, that is disappointing to me. However, why does it bother you so much is my bigger question.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

I don't think anybody is rejoicing over the 17 churches that have left the district. They're just saying that those churches weren't actively involved in the district functions anyway, so their absence has caused minimal damage.

There isn't the dismal effect some were hoping for. That's all!

There is HOPE that the increased unity will bring additional growth! Unity matters, doesn't it?

If unity mattered then why is it only unity in the org that's sought after ...
saying brethren and churches leaving your fellowship is hardly a dent ... hardly sounds like one cares about unity in the overall body but damage control, spin and self-preservation ...especially when said stats don't exhibit growth but flatlining.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The angst is palpable.

First of all, I haven't used the word "lie" so please retract your last sentence. The spin I referred to earlier was from a much more powerful source than the WD.

Secondly, I just think it's sad that we lose 17 churches and people rejoice over it.

BTW, I think the choice to leave was good for those who left, and for the UPC. But you haven't read all 7000 of my posts, so you wouldn't know that.

PP,

now that I see the list of names, I can vouch that ALL
of the names of the churches have been included, BOTH
those who went with WPF andthose who went
independant.
I see that listed my section accurately.only one church left
our section. I thought it would have been more but it didn't
end up being so.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by StMark

PP,

now that I see the list of names, I can vouch that ALL
of the names of the churches have been included, BOTH
those who went with WPF andthose who went
independant.
I see that listed my section accurately.only one church left
our section. I thought it would have been more but it didn't
end up being so.

What's also missing is how many ministers have been dropped because of not paying dues ...

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Dee ... are you suggesting that minister in New York has no stake in the overall health of his own ministerial fellowship that he pays dues to ... contributes offerings to and spends time and energy into ?

How could you say ... why should he care about the WD?

It's one of the largest districts in the org. It's a pretty good barometer for what's happening in other areas too ... is it not?

As aa minister and church one gives money to fund church plants in other states and countries .... correct?

The WD has been a hotbed of controversy that has affected the org overall ...see last few General Conferences and founding members of the WPF.

Didn't Paul suggest if one part of the body hurts the whole does?

The problem is Dan, that the WD seems to weathering a potentially bad storm rather well. Shouldn't there be a sense of relief over that? PP seems horrified.

You do not need to tell me, of all people what a "hotbed" this district has been. It almost killed my dad. However, a lot of the controversy came out of situations that dealt with some of those who have left. Once again, I don't hate them, I don't wish them harm, but I am not sad. I wish them well on their journey, and hope that they further the kingdom.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

If you were not referring to the WD, considering that you are responding on a thread about it, you might want to clarify yourself. And if what you said ( untruthful manipulation of facts) is not considered the description of a lie, I don't think you are so immune to spin yourself.



I have been around for over a year now and have read more than my fair share of your posts. Most make me sad.

Why on earth would you want to waste your time analyzing these stats. What is the big deal, one preacher makes a probably ill-advised attempt to show people that they were wrong in their assumptions about the WD self-destructing. Why do you have so much venom in your heart over it?

For the second time, the WD did not publish these stats, they were released to a few people, for specific reasons, none of which has anything to do with any of us.

Personally, I think WDMinister has once again posted things that were meant to be confidential, and whoever he is, that is disappointing to me. However, why does it bother you so much is my bigger question.

Sister, I have no "venom" in my heart over it. I have not analyzed the stats. May I ask what your interest in this thread is? What is your agenda?

I think it "sad" that some rejoice over broken fellowship, that's all.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by StMark

PP,

now that I see the list of names, I can vouch that ALL
of the names of the churches have been included, BOTH
those who went with WPF andthose who went
independant.
I see that listed my section accurately.only one church left
our section. I thought it would have been more but it didn't
end up being so.

Thanks Mark.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

If unity mattered then why is it only unity in the org that's sought after ...
saying brethren and churches leaving your fellowship is hardly a dent ... hardly sounds like one cares about unity in the overall body but damage control and spin ...especially when said stats don't exhibit growth but flatlining.

Flat lining can be a positive thing sometimes. Especially when there is a sector that split off! In this case flat lining is considered a major victory and should be rejoiced over!

Disunity in the district was a cancer that was destroying the district from the inside out. The chance at finally having unity should be celebrated!

BTW, I hope the group that left much unity and success also!