CA. Western Dist.aftermath of WPF- hardly a dent

[SDG]

Barbiegirl when you take the designer rose color glasses off ... you'll realize some of your suppositions are way off ... especially about PP.

Discussing statistics and how they are presented is not bashing ... it's relevant and germane to the topic at hand.

One can be in or out of the UPC and not have to agree w/ the modus operandi ... and do so w/o malicious intent.

[George]

I am thoroughly confused! A few months ago there were many questions on this forum asking how many churches have left UPC to WPF, how many have signed up with WPF, who's staying, who's leaving, etc. There was speculation that WPF would split the Western District nearly in half because of the WD being deemed the most ultra-con district. Factual stats are now presented and instead of taking them for what they are worth, you are criticizing the district for not growing, being too ultra-con, etc. I think for having went through what most call a major split, the WD has faired quite well. Certainly they didn't melt to 50%.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by George

I am thoroughly confused! A few months ago there were many questions on this forum asking how many churches have left UPC to WPF, how many have signed up with WPF, who's staying, who's leaving, etc. There was speculation that WPF would split the Western District nearly in half because of the WD being deemed the most ultra-con district. Factual stats are now presented and instead of taking them for what they are worth, you are criticizing the district for not growing, being too ultra-con, etc. I think for having went through what most call a major split, the WD has faired quite well. Certainly they didn't melt to 50%.

and I might add, when I went to youth convention this year, I was under the impression that the crowd would be way down due to all the splits. I was astonished to see the placed nearly packed with almost 4000 people.
now, it did seem that DS was way down but then again maybe because it wasn't an election year??

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Misinformation? Not acceptable.

Ones bias showing? To be expected.

Positive speak from any organizations leaders? To be expected.

Unless you ARE willing to show this has been more than minute percentages of defection, then your claims of false reporting ring hollow and speak more of your own bias and experience (which I don't really comprehend).

SH, what do you consider "more than minute?" Is 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600. or would you need to see 1000's for it to have any relevance to you? While I don't have exact numbers, it is my understanding that the WPF is somewhere around 600-700 strong. (Not all are from the UPCI)

Also it has already been stated that most of the churches that left were well established churches, and in light of the average church size in the UPCI, many of these were larger churches. To overlook the impact of time and resources that it will take to replace them, "hardly a dent" is hardly a realistic statement.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by StMark

and I might add, when I went to youth convention this year, I was under the impression that the crowd would be way down due to all the splits. I was astonished to see the placed nearly packed with almost 4000 people.
now, it did seem that DS was way down but then again maybe because it wasn't an election year??

StMark,

With all due respect, according to my insider reports (I have very "close" contact with those who planned and hosted this event for several years) I was told that the seating this year was only about half of what it has been up until now.

[Cindy]

Churches left or pastor's left?

[George]

Originally Posted by bishoph

StMark,

With all due respect, according to my insider reports (I have very "close" contact with those who planned and hosted this event for several years) I was told that the seating this year was only about half of what it has been up until now.

My pastor was there and he gave the same report as Mark. The convention center seats about 4,000 and it was packed. Before the district divided (SoCal starting their new district) they did open the back wall and had an additional 500-1,000 seats. When they had the additional seats the convention center was not full and it was more difficult for people in the convention center to see. They returned to the old format of having a packed out convention center.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by bishoph

StMark,

With all due respect, according to my insider reports (I have very "close" contact with those who planned and hosted this event for several years) I was told that the seating this year was only about half of what it has been up until now.

wrong- I was there live and in person and sat in the balcony
and had a panoramic view

[StMark]

Originally Posted by bishoph

SH, what do you consider "more than minute?" Is 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600. or would you need to see 1000's for it to have any relevance to you? While I don't have exact numbers, it is my understanding that the WPF is somewhere around 600-700 strong. (Not all are from the UPCI)

Also it has already been stated that most of the churches that left were well established churches, and in light of the average church size in the UPCI, many of these were larger churches. To overlook the impact of time and resources that it will take to replace them, "hardly a dent" is hardly a realistic statement.

so how many actually left from the UPC to join WPF?
I have read reports of 200 but I don't know

[lad]

Originally Posted by bishoph

StMark,

With all due respect, according to my insider reports (I have very "close" contact with those who planned and hosted this event for several years) I was told that the seating this year was only about half of what it has been up until now.

I was there also.... and have been for 25+ years.... The only difference is the last couple of years they have went back to the original seating/platform arrangement - It's still packed!