Not true. Jesus said you must be born AGAIN. Nick asked how and Jesus told him. First you have to be naturally born and then spiritually born. By the way no mention of tongues here either.
God really thinks we as human beings are that stupid?
Come on.
It seems easy to me - he was trying to stress the fact that we needed to be made NEW.......born again - - start over.
Correct!
How we accomplish that is through Water/Spirit Baptism.
Now there is a multitude of other Scriptures, but I concentrate on that one because it is being discussed & because it is so plain.
I have absolutly no interest in rehashing agian the Water Spirit doctrine.
I am interested in the connection between leaving standards and changing ones core doctrine.
these things seem to go together. For some I suppose doctrine goes first, but i have seen quite a few where standards were jettisoned and that led to rethinking doctrine.
I was the youth pastor to some kids whos parents did this. the man had a upci licenes for years. they decided the standards were dumb. then they decided to leave an apostolic church. now they go to a baptist church and this guy just recently refused to baptize someone in the name of Jesus.
thats a pretty over the top example but it reflects a view that many of us have.
people leave mainsteam Apostolic churchs because they dont like dresses and end up leaving the doctrine they held all their lives....
this is what Im interested in. Not if W/S is right or wrong. Im not interested in debating it.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
How we accomplish that is through Water/Spirit Baptism.
Now there is a multitude of other Scriptures, but I concentrate on that one because it is being discussed & because it is so plain.
I was just responded to your "did he think we were stupid" remark.
I don't believe you think I'm correct really.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
I have absolutly no interest in rehashing agian the Water Spirit doctrine.
I am interested in the connection between leaving standards and changing ones core doctrine.
these things seem to go together. For some I suppose doctrine goes first, but i have seen quite a few where standards were jettisoned and that led to rethinking doctrine.
I was the youth pastor to some kids whos parents did this. the man had a upci licenes for years. they decided the standards were dumb. then they decided to leave an apostolic church. now they go to a baptist church and this guy just recently refused to baptize someone in the name of Jesus.
thats a pretty over the top example but it reflects a view that many of us have.
people leave mainsteam Apostolic churchs because they dont like dresses and end up leaving the doctrine they held all their lives....
this is what Im interested in. Not if W/S is right or wrong. Im not interested in debating it.
It does get old doesn't it?
As I said to someone recently, these discussions lately on Doctrine are becoming forgone conclusions.
BTW I agree to a point on the connection between dropping standards & dropping doctrine to be sometimes connected.
I would think there are some things that are "dropped" when one "leaves" standards. I really don't like either of those terms, but those are terms well known in our ranks, so we'll use them.
Could it be that once their eyes are opened to seeing man made standards aren't Biblical that their eyes are open to see other scriptures with an open mind more and not what was "told" to them all their lives?
Just throwing this out there for discussion.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
I would think there are some things that are "dropped" when one "leaves" standards. I really don't like either of those terms, but those are terms well known in our ranks, so we'll use them.
Could it be that once their eyes are opened to seeing man made standards aren't Biblical that their eyes are open to see other scriptures with an open mind more and not what was "told" to them all their lives?
Just throwing this out there for discussion.
Or we could say that as one closes their eye's to one truth, they stop seeing any truth.
I still think God believes we are not stupid in telling us we need to be alive & then Spirit born.
I do too. And that's exactly what that scripture is saying as you said above, however, you feel that means water baptism and spirit baptism - not natural birth - spiritual birth.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
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