Tulsa Report Day One

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

Agreed. They're sticking around because I believe they want the UPC to kick them out. That will give them a reason to UPC bash.

They want to be kicked out so they can tell everyone that they had the right spirit all along and the UPC is who caused the division....

Then if the UPC kicks them out they would not be to wise? Elder Bernard has stated you in reality cannot belong to both.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Melody

I didn't know that, but now maybe communication will be easier. Why send a flyer to churches that don't want to attend, I would want to be on the mailing list. So I can send my children. We have been in hotels with bible quizzers, and I'm not trying to start a debate on what you can or can't sleep in, but rather than confine girls in pajamas, (and in my opinion it is pants) to the hotel room, the chaperones weren't keeping the girls in the rooms, they weren't dressed whether in gowns or pajamas, but they were quiet comfortable walking down to breakfast etc.... I don't want my daughters to question.

Melody, I understand your very real concern here. No one is saying that there should be a free rein, do whatever you want mentality. Restraint and common sense should be our cornerstone of conduct, but sadly it is not.

However, to break an alliance with men and women who brought you over saddens me.

This is effecting families...preacher fathers differing with preacher sons, and more.

How is God viewing this?!

Is He pleased?!

Some would cast off my concerns with, "God doesn't care what org you align with."

True enough, but how about the hard feelings, the words spoken, the accusations on both sides, the disunity of the brethren?!

I don't know...I just don't know...

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I disagree, jrLA. I don't think the UPC should enforce anything of the sort. Nor do I think there should be any limits on who fellowships with whom. (Of course, there already is...with that stupid resolution that passed last year.)

When I was a kid, we fellowshipped with AMF, ALJC, PAW, Independents, and even some AOG. I think its healthy, and it allows you to learn to love people who don't necessarily see eye to eye with you on every issue.

Miss B...You are correct, there SHOULDN'T be limits on who fellowships with who....But, Many of those men have ALREADY set those limits of fellowship. I think it is sad really. I am not for division at all but come on now......surely folks can see the writing on the wall. It is all political! Really sad!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Melody

Pelathais sorry it didn't work, someone helped to edit it last night so it wasn't crazy, you can do a google search on Kathleen Herles, click on images.

Why have her there at all if she wasn't an example. Now the young man who had a successful campus ministry he was someone I would want the children to model after.

Sure, and we know that a girl that would wear a dress showing her shoulders couldn't possibly do anything great for God. (Or girls that wear pajamas, for that matter!)

Did you happen to see this more recently posted photo?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The links don't work . I think they are of "Dora the Explorer?"

She was one of several UPC young people who were interviewed for doing "unusual things." This may even be one those those things that the Youth Committee chooses to "not do again." I don't know that she was held up as an "example."

My daughter was there and had a great time. My daughter is just 15 but she's savvy enough to realize that the "Jesus Name" movement covers a pretty broad spectrum of belief and practice. My daughter also selects her own wardrobe entirely by herself and always ends up looking like a fairly "conservative" Pentecostal young lady. More "conservative" than even I do! That's just her choice.

Thanks for the input.

My understanding is that she was not held up as an "example" of anything...

[Steve Epley]

Just spoke to a prominent preacher at Tulsa he said between 1200-1600. There are 100 men there from the CAF.

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Then if the UPC kicks them out they would not be to wise? Elder Bernard has stated you in reality cannot belong to both.

I am not sure if the org has a choice! It is written......

[Barb]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Sure, and we know that a girl that would wear a dress showing her shoulders couldn't possibly do anything great for God. (Or girls that wear pajamas, for that matter!)

Did you happen to see this more recently posted photo?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by jrLA

I am not sure if the org has a choice! It is written......

The Tulsa group is not issuing licenses thus technically they are not in violation.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Melody

Pelathais sorry it didn't work, someone helped to edit it last night so it wasn't crazy, you can do a google search on Kathleen Herles, click on images.

Why have her there at all if she wasn't an example. Now the young man who had a successful campus ministry he was someone I would want the children to model after.

I don't know why the selections were made the way they were. By including her you do point out the diversity of the movement.

Again, Youth Congresses are the place where younger ministers are often allowed to try things that "push the boundaries." I think we should allow this sort of experimentation and also allow the younger ministers to learn from the triumphs and from the things that may not have worked out so well.

The way things stand now, we are losing our young people in greater numbers than ever before. We are also losing our young ministers in vast numbers. My impression is that most of the youth are just burned out with all of the infighting that goes on.

No matter how you run the numbers, the Oneness Apostolic movement in North America is dying. Even with our "best numbers" being reported we are not even keeping up with the population growth. We are an increasingly marginalized group whose impact, though never really big, is growing even smaller.

I don't think that the answer to that problem is to run down and discourage even more of our young people, especially our young ministers. We need to find the core principles of our faith- the things that never change with time or technology, and promote those things.