A letter from Bro. Haney

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

Ok, I understand, thanks.

So in my church in Oregon you couldn't watch TV because it was a sin because the Pastor said so. If I go to another state I could own a TV because the Pastor said so and it is not a sin.

So do we sin against God or against man with this example?

Lets say it is another "holiness" issue. If I decided to attend a church in Kansas years ago (can't comment on recent as I have not been there in a while), I would have to leave my wedding ring and watch at home in order to participate in the service. If I decide that is where I want to go to church,( possibly because of the great spirit I felt in the initial services, maybe because the warmth I felt from the congregation, or even the messages I initially heard), IMO, since I have decided thats where I am going to go, then I am to place myself under the subjection of that pastor. If I then decided that wearing my ring isn't such a bad thing and begin doing so, I think that has nothing to do with sinning against the pastor. Now I am in rebellion to the leadership that God has placed over me. And that would seem to be a sin against God. Not because its a ring issue, but because its a subjection issue. It might be best at that time to find another assembly that i can subject myself to rather than just rebel. I apologize if I seem to ramble.

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

Lets say it is another "holiness" issue. If I decided to attend a church in Kansas years ago (can't comment on recent as I have not been there in a while), I would have to leave my wedding ring and watch at home in order to participate in the service. If I decide that is where I want to go to church,( possibly because of the great spirit I felt in the initial services, maybe because the warmth I felt from the congregation, or even the messages I initially heard), IMO, since I have decided thats where I am going to go, then I am to place myself under the subjection of that pastor. If I then decided that wearing my ring isn't such a bad thing and begin doing so, I think that has nothing to do with sinning against the pastor. Now I am in rebellion to the leadership that God has placed over me. And that would seem to be a sin against God. Not because its a ring issue, but because its a subjection issue. It might be best at that time to find another assembly that i can subject myself to rather than just rebel. I apologize if I seem to ramble.

No you didn't ramble. Thanks for the answer.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

Lets say it is another "holiness" issue. If I decided to attend a church in Kansas years ago (can't comment on recent as I have not been there in a while), I would have to leave my wedding ring and watch at home in order to participate in the service. If I decide that is where I want to go to church,( possibly because of the great spirit I felt in the initial services, maybe because the warmth I felt from the congregation, or even the messages I initially heard), IMO, since I have decided thats where I am going to go, then I am to place myself under the subjection of that pastor. If I then decided that wearing my ring isn't such a bad thing and begin doing so, I think that has nothing to do with sinning against the pastor. Now I am in rebellion to the leadership that God has placed over me. And that would seem to be a sin against God. Not because its a ring issue, but because its a subjection issue. It might be best at that time to find another assembly that i can subject myself to rather than just rebel. I apologize if I seem to ramble.

I think you rambled it out very well! LOL! I agree with what you are saying here.

The problem that you encounter with a lot of people, some on this forum, is that some really take issue with the submission issue. I am not one of them.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

You sir (and I use that loosely) are the one that is shallow minded. Clling names and insuling is all you do.

I have lived for God for nearly 32 years now, and have done it with ALL MY HEART. I have not compromised and will not.

I have good fellowship, there are still many good Godly men that stand for Truth. Just last week a neighboring pastor preached for us and he preached on keeping the ship on the right course. It was great.

Just stick your head in the sand and say that people like me don''t exists, but there ae plenty of us and we are not going away.

How many people have you derailed from the Kingdom of God in those 32 years.

I also have almost 32 years. Recived the HG, Baptism in JN, Ft. Worth, TX May 16th, 1976....

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Why is it ok for you to call those more liberal than yourself "hypocrites", and yet you cry foul when a liberal calls you "shallow minded"?

Please go back and respond to my earlier question about said subject - hypocrites.

Thanks

Michael Phelps, i agree with your response to Whole hearted.



How many times have I seen the high hairdo in front of me at a movie...

How many times have I seen their kids in shorts.

How many times have I heard them hum a "rock tune".

How many cut bangs on the women in the choir do we have to see to say they are cutting their hair.

How many 70 year old brunettes do we have to see in our churches before we catch them at Walgreen's buying the revlon color.

How many in our churches do we have to check the bankrunptcy roles to see they are not good stewarts of their money.

How many men are glad their church does not require them to wear a ring.

I work with sinners who take their rings off in certain situations to have a chance of getting a glance....

How many of these men do we have to check their harddrives to see they are on porn sites.

How many of these folks have strife and envy against their fellow church members.

Because they see them in pants, or hear they went to a Major league baseball game....

I think that when folks want to shrine themselves with the vestal of imperfect outward imperial holiness with a little "h".

That is as deep as their walk with God gets, "Look at me".

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

Lets say it is another "holiness" issue. If I decided to attend a church in Kansas years ago (can't comment on recent as I have not been there in a while), I would have to leave my wedding ring and watch at home in order to participate in the service. If I decide that is where I want to go to church,( possibly because of the great spirit I felt in the initial services, maybe because the warmth I felt from the congregation, or even the messages I initially heard), IMO, since I have decided thats where I am going to go, then I am to place myself under the subjection of that pastor. If I then decided that wearing my ring isn't such a bad thing and begin doing so, I think that has nothing to do with sinning against the pastor. Now I am in rebellion to the leadership that God has placed over me. And that would seem to be a sin against God. Not because its a ring issue, but because its a subjection issue. It might be best at that time to find another assembly that i can subject myself to rather than just rebel. I apologize if I seem to ramble.

You haven't rambled at all.

You have expressed some of the frustrations that many of us have encountered through the years and makes things seem so inconsistent to others.

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

I'm just wondering what your biblical reference point is on this. Even if you absolutely believe that these things are wrong, what is your biblical example for not fellowshipping with anyone but those who believe exactly as you do?

How can two walk together except the agree.

What fellowship hath light with darkness/

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

How can two walk together except the agree.

What fellowship hath light with darkness/

WH, since you're back, please respond to my posts, if you would be so kind.

Question - why is it ok for you to refer to those who do not have as high of a standard as you as "hypocrites", and yet when someone calls you "shallow minded" you cry foul?

Question - why do those who do not agree with/practice all of the bylaws of the UPC and yet stay in it receive the title of "hypocrite" from you, and yet you have admitted that you don't agree with all of the UPC bylaws, and don't even send your kids to UPC camp, and yet you stay? Wouldn't that make you a hypocrite? Paying your dues to an ungodly organization>?

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

WH, since you're back, please respond to my posts, if you would be so kind.

Question - why is it ok for you to refer to those who do not have as high of a standard as you as "hypocrites", and yet when someone calls you "shallow minded" you cry foul?

Question - why do those who do not agree with/practice all of the bylaws of the UPC and yet stay in it receive the title of "hypocrite" from you, and yet you have admitted that you don't agree with all of the UPC bylaws, and don't even send your kids to UPC camp, and yet you stay? Wouldn't that make you a hypocrite? Paying your dues to an ungodly organization>?

Are you saying someone in the UPC has to have logic with their beliefs?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

Are you saying someone in the UPC has to have logic with their beliefs?

I'm just hoping WH will be an honorable man and explain his assertions.