It means that "these signs" will follow the group as a whole. That's all it means. You keep doing what I said we can't then asking me if that is right lol.
It means "these signs will follow the church" there is no specification as to whether or not some might not have any one particular sign.
OK, I think I have it. All these signs will follow the church, a particular individual will have some of these signs?
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Mark 16:17-18And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:17-18And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
them that believe, could be anyone who believes.
The point being discuss is that these signs will follow those that believe, but that doesn't mean that every individual believer will have every single sign in their individual lives, rather that all these signs will follow the body of believers as a whole.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
The point being discuss is that these signs will follow those that believe, but that doesn't mean that every individual believer will have every single sign in their individual lives, rather that all these signs will follow the body of believers as a whole.
so you are saying the verse actually says:
Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow the body of believers as a whole; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
interresting. my bible said it differently.
Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow the body of believers as a whole; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
interresting. my bible said it differently.
Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
them that believe can be anyone who believes.
Sis. some use this scripture to require that each and every believer have everyone of these signs in their life. Paul had an experience with the serpent, but I don't believe his required that every believer take up serpents to prove they are saved or that they have faith. Nor does every believer purposely drink poison, so why should we require the other signs in every individual believer.
I don't think we are in disagreement, just some clarification. Or maybe we are?
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Sis. some use this scripture to require that each and every believer have everyone of these signs in their life. Paul had an experience with the serpent, but I don't believe his required that every believer take up serpents to prove they are saved or that they have faith. Nor does every believer purposely drink poison, so why should we require the other signs in every individual believer.
I don't think we are in disagreement, just some clarification. Or maybe we are?
no i can agree with that. the point i was trying to make is, signs CAN follow anyone, not that it is required for signs to follow.
Jesus said
Joh 14:12 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
if we are doing the works Jesus did and greater works, then it is likely that signs will follow. and alot of times i find that its an individual here and there that have the kind of faith that Jesus talked about.
so yes in the context you are talking about, i am in agreement, just wanted to clarify what was my thinking when i read all this.
OK, to get back to the original question: what are we to do with known additions and changes to the scriptures? To summarize some facts, which I think we all agree on (correct me if I'm wrong, as if I needed to tell ya!):
1. We do not have any of the original manuscripts. They are all lost. But they were copied some number of times, and those copies were copied, etc. Some copies are also lost (almost certainly).
2. There are differences in the copies.
3. There are differences of opinion on which copies are best.
4. Even the best copies we have may have differences from the originals. Some things were added, some things were changed, some things were deleted or lost, some lost things were replaced with something.
5. We have no way of knowing what all the differences are, nor how many there are, nor how closely they resemble the originals.
6. Some of the differences may have an effect on doctrines.
This list isn't a summary only of things said on the thread, so far. I've added some details. So, anything in there to disagree with?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The point being discuss is that these signs will follow those that believe, but that doesn't mean that every individual believer will have every single sign in their individual lives, rather that all these signs will follow the body of believers as a whole.
The converse of that is not true though either: It doesn't mean that every individual won't or can't have every single sign in their individual lives
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
The converse of that is not true though either: It doesn't mean that every individual won't or can't have every single sign in their individual lives
True, I agree, but it is very unlikely considering the list of signs.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
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