Your prayers for peace and healing are appreciated.
The healing process is not an easy thing. I wish it were as easy as just not talking about it, and 'putting it behind' us. Or just 'trusting in the Lord', or 'just worshipping Him'. Those are all nice words and thoughts, and to some degree they are all necessary, but reality is a bit different for each one of us. We all heal in different ways at different times. Sometimes these things NEED to be discussed and brought to the table, and sometimes they don't.
I understand how hard it may be for some ministers to see this stuff about a colleague, or another minister. And how hard it is to just sit back and watch what some may consider preacher bashing unfold. But on the flip side of that, it's almost as hard for others to sit back and watch the destruction of people by a man who just isn't handling things quite right. And to keep silent when somebody may have been helped by revealing truth. In this case, it's the truth of spiritually abusive behavior.
I'm glad this was here for others to join in and express themselves, and most likely by talking about it, will bring a measure of healing to their lives. I know it helps me. For the most part this is all in my past, and I rarely bring it up anymore. I believe most who have shared in this thread are of the same mindset...they rarely express these things, and appreciate that there is a time and a place to speak our minds, and to know that there are others who have walked the same road, in the same shoes.
What shoes they are too!
All kidding aside she is right about this...this again is a throughtful well stated post...thank you Mrs....you have a great way with words and making things clear!
I also don't get the whole, "Well, you should have just left" mentality coming from people who think that you should always be submitted to some spiritual authority...
To leave, means you must find someone else to submit to, and it is like playing musical chairs if God comes back while the music is still playing...
And there is no way of knowing that the next person you submit to will be any better until after you have already submitted to him, then you have to start all over again at the beginning of this post.
Right. And, according to some, if you're not a preacher, you can't even understand the Bible on your own. We need a preacher to explain it to us. We can't even get saved without a preacher.
But there is an obvious dilemma. If a stupid layman like me is stuck in a non-OP church, what choice do I have but to submit anyway and stay put forever? I guess I'll end up in hell. Or if I am in an abusive OP church, again, am I stuck forever? Just buck up, and endure to the end?
What if I'm in a Mormon church? What if I'm Muslim or Buddhist? How can I tell if I should leave and find "the truth"?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I have taken the time to read this thread in it’s entirety. I too have walked in the shoes of being spiritually abused. I used to post as AtaCrossroads on a different forum. When I brought up some of these same issues I was pegged as being bitter and just needed to “get over it”. I am surprised at Careym’s new take on the situation. It is refreshing. I am NOT surprised at Roxy’s stern rebukes.
This thread doesn’t scratch the surface of the subliminal rules that took place at the church I attended. There is no rule book. The closer your relationship is with God the more you will submit to the pastor in every aspect of your life. We were not able to take vacations because it was not the right timing for the Pastor…too many people would be absent. If we would have went against his decision, that would have been a mark against our “spiritual condition”…..DOES ANYONE SEE THE SPIRITUAL ABUSE???? There were families that attended this church that would take vacations without consulting and getting the approval from the pastor. As a leader we would hear the opinion of that saint's spiritual condition…..NOT GOOD!
I came to the conclusion while I was there that I would never make it. I would never please my Pastor. I would never meet their “spiritual height”….not even close. I worked at the school full time, w/four small children. I would do my best to make it to school 30 minutes before school started to get situated…I was praying “God help me to get these kids' lunches made, help me to get all this stuff gathered up in the van…Help me to make it on time!” Then the pastor would meet me at the School and ask me if I had a good word from the Lord this morning in prayer time, or did I read a good scripture. I would feel so defeated. OOOOPS I forgot to wake up at 5 and pray for an hour. Now I am not good enough to work in the school today…..not spiritual enough. I wouldn’t know what to tell the pastor. I would say some stupid thing and feel so carnal.
I did not leave God when I left the UPC. I have found my outlook on the whole world is so much better, I love being a child of God. I felt God leading me out, although it was a painful process, there were specific things that happened where God let me know his hand was on my family. He created me, He knows my heart. I am not going to allow anyone to tear my salvation away from me.
I now see how backwards that type of relationship with God is. They lead with the idea that nobody wants to really live for God and please him, we are one step from falling into hell fire. They are suspicious of everything you do. They have a magnifying glass on your life. That is how they see God. He is waiting for us to commit sin.
I do want to bring up the fact that the UPC….yes the UPC has a real problem with “UNITY”. They look at the same UPC church down the road 20 miles as backslid because they let there ladies wear their sleeves above their elbows. They are allowed to attend ball games…etc. We were told that if we changed UPC churches we would be backslidden. They also informed or family members that they believed we were walking away from God if we changed UPC churches.
My time is limited this morning but i want to let these folks know that have shared their story with us, I am sorry that your credibilitiy has even been Questioned here. Especially in view of what you all have been thru already and then to have people come along and act like it was YOU, it was YOUR fault,just get over it. There are several reasons why this is happening. Just know that most of us are praying and supporting you on your path to healing
I think at some point we all have to heal from hurts or we risk losing our own souls. are the people that put you through this abuse really worth it?
I also want to say that most or all of these people have not wallowed in pity, excues or tried to garner support for being bitter. I don't think most of them are bitter . there's a few people that can snap right back and get over it really fast. for others, it will be a process, maybe a long one. I think we just need to show the love of God and compassion coupled with patience. It's OUR turn to show the fruit of the spirit .
another thing is, I am the one who urged sis truth seeker to make a list of the rules and what was enforced on them. So, if any of you want to point a finger of blame for this thread, point it ME.
Thad, this thread has been a good thread and I believe those that have shared their stories are not sorry they did so.
Healing requires accepting what has happened and I don't believe there was ONE person on this thread that enjoys talking about this. It was painful to go through and it's painful to talk about, but there is healing in that.
Also, there could be others out there that read the testimonies of those that have been through it and come out of it victoriously, so it's served a purpose for sure!
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Thad, this thread has been a good thread and I believe those that have shared their stories are not sorry they did so.
Healing requires accepting what has happened and I don't believe there was ONE person on this thread that enjoys talking about this. It was painful to go through and it's painful to talk about, but there is healing in that.
Also, there could be others out there that read the testimonies of those that have been through it and come out of it victoriously, so it's served a purpose for sure!
Renda, These people have my love and support unconditionally
I am UPC myself BUT I am not afraid to admit that ALL organizations have problems incuding ours,and I am NOT being disloyal to own up to it! in fact, i think it makes us look worse when we can't humble ourselves and confess we have had some issues.
The majority of our churches are good. I think these are the exceptions BUT i know for a fact, being raised as a pastor's son , these things have and do happen!
I have taken the time to read this thread in it’s entirety. I too have walked in the shoes of being spiritually abused. I used to post as AtaCrossroads on a different forum. When I brought up some of these same issues I was pegged as being bitter and just needed to “get over it”. I am surprised at Careym’s new take on the situation. It is refreshing. I am NOT surprised at Roxy’s stern rebukes.
This thread doesn’t scratch the surface of the subliminal rules that took place at the church I attended. There is no rule book. The closer your relationship is with God the more you will submit to the pastor in every aspect of your life. We were not able to take vacations because it was not the right timing for the Pastor…too many people would be absent. If we would have went against his decision, that would have been a mark against our “spiritual condition”…..DOES ANYONE SEE THE SPIRITUAL ABUSE???? There were families that attended this church that would take vacations without consulting and getting the approval from the pastor. As a leader we would hear the opinion of that saint's spiritual condition…..NOT GOOD!
I came to the conclusion while I was there that I would never make it. I would never please my Pastor. I would never meet their “spiritual height”….not even close. I worked at the school full time, w/four small children. I would do my best to make it to school 30 minutes before school started to get situated…I was praying “God help me to get these kids' lunches made, help me to get all this stuff gathered up in the van…Help me to make it on time!” Then the pastor would meet me at the School and ask me if I had a good word from the Lord this morning in prayer time, or did I read a good scripture. I would feel so defeated. OOOOPS I forgot to wake up at 5 and pray for an hour. Now I am not good enough to work in the school today…..not spiritual enough. I wouldn’t know what to tell the pastor. I would say some stupid thing and feel so carnal.
I did not leave God when I left the UPC. I have found my outlook on the whole world is so much better, I love being a child of God. I felt God leading me out, although it was a painful process, there were specific things that happened where God let me know his hand was on my family. He created me, He knows my heart. I am not going to allow anyone to tear my salvation away from me.
I now see how backwards that type of relationship with God is. They lead with the idea that nobody wants to really live for God and please him, we are one step from falling into hell fire. They are suspicious of everything you do. They have a magnifying glass on your life. That is how they see God. He is waiting for us to commit sin.
I do want to bring up the fact that the UPC….yes the UPC has a real problem with “UNITY”. They look at the same UPC church down the road 20 miles as backslid because they let there ladies wear their sleeves above their elbows. They are allowed to attend ball games…etc. We were told that if we changed UPC churches we would be backslidden. They also informed or family members that they believed we were walking away from God if we changed UPC churches.
Yes yes yes......again this is someone from the same church for all you people who think its just me....if I thought it would help I could tell you many second hand stories of people that left this church....some stayed in the organization, but had to move far away to do it....but most didn't because it just was to hard to trust again....and if you moved to a neighboring town you were marked because you left your "home" church, beside like Harmony said you knew you were backslidden anyway so what is the point...
This came to me this AM as I was waking and asking God for guidance here...if you doubt this, if you can't see this, if you just think this is pastor bashing....maybe you need to check in with God and see if your maybe defensive because it does have a RING of TRUTH...and I know that when the light shines on darkness it can be painful when its all you have know or thought was right...that was where we were....so self rightous because we went to the RIGHT church....oh dear how many times have I asked God to help me and forgive that terrible spirit I had. Judgmental of anyone and everyone, even those in the church...were they measuring up, were they working hard enough, were they praying enough,....on and on.
My time is limited this morning but i want to let these folks know that have shared their story with us, I am sorry that your credibilitiy has even been Questioned here. Especially in view of what you all have been thru already and then to have people come along and act like it was YOU, it was YOUR fault,just get over it. There are several reasons why this is happening. Just know that most of us are praying and supporting you on your path to healing
I think at some point we all have to heal from hurts or we risk losing our own souls. are the people that put you through this abuse really worth it?
I also want to say that most or all of these people have not wallowed in pity, excues or tried to garner support for being bitter. I don't think most of them are bitter . there's a few people that can snap right back and get over it really fast. for others, it will be a process, maybe a long one. I think we just need to show the love of God and compassion coupled with patience. It's OUR turn to show the fruit of the spirit .
another thing is, I am the one who urged sis truth seeker to make a list of the rules and what was enforced on them. So, if any of you want to point a finger of blame for this thread, point it ME.
Thad, this thread has been a good thread and I believe those that have shared their stories are not sorry they did so.
Healing requires accepting what has happened and I don't believe there was ONE person on this thread that enjoys talking about this. It was painful to go through and it's painful to talk about, but there is healing in that.
Also, there could be others out there that read the testimonies of those that have been through it and come out of it victoriously, so it's served a purpose for sure!
Renda, These people have my love and support unconditionally
I am UPC myself BUT I am not afraid to admit that ALL organizations have problems incuding ours,and I am NOT being disloyal to own up to it! in fact, i think it makes us look worse when we can't humble ourselves and confess we have had some issues.
The majority of our churches are good. I think these are the exceptions BUT i know for a fact, being raised as a pastor's son , these things have and do happen!
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