WILLOWCREEK ADMITS" We Got it wrong with our Programs!!

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Newman

I have limited time to post. However, I will take the time to respond to this thread since the point of view I have may not otherwise get expressed.

I had opportunity to attend a Willow Creek Leadership Summit 3-4 years ago. I would encourage any minister who understands that one can eat and leave the bones on the plate to attend and look at some issues in a new light.

The couple of days I spent there were awe-inspiring. In fact, I absolutely felt the presence of God and felt the Holy Ghost stir in me. (Which of course will be met with skeptism by some). I understand that.

The two hour presentation that I saw by Bill Hybels was eye opening. He was one of the most humble men I ever heard speak. It is no wonder that many ministers of first generation Willow Creek churches park at the back of the parking lot and drive modest cars even though the church budget could accomodate so much more.

But I digress...

Am I surprised that Bill Hybels would get up in front of thousands of churches he has been influential in and say "We made a mistake"?

NO! A thousand times no. Because Bill Hybels isn't looking to be right, he is looking to expand the church's reach and influence as he understands it.

And for the record, I would suggest that he is only talking about the inability to reach some groups of people because the Willow Creek church in my area has gone from 40 people to about 8-10 churches in the past 15 years.

The first church running around 6000 people the last I heard. They have funded missions to Africa, South America, India and inner cities of our nation.

Are there alot of spectators at these churches? No doubt. But there also is a core group that is on fire, and multiplying and touching other people's lives in the name of Christ.

Did Bill Hybels fail? Only if one thinks McDonalds is unsuccessful because all of their advertizing isn't effective.

And let me head the criticism off at the pass. Does Bill Hybels preach Acts 2:38 as we do? Not that I am aware of, but he sure seems to be influential in putting others on the path to seeking God which is a great path to be on.

In fact, every example in Acts that I can think of that found out about baptizm and the Holy Ghost were already people worshipping or seeking God.

...[F]or he that cometh to God must believe that he is and he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him (Hebrews 11:6).

what BH had to say has been many leader's point exactly for many years.

They will find the same across the board. Maxwell, Warren, Wagner, etc.

Good for Hybels in being honest and humble enough to admit it.

He laying a lot on the line by doing that.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Newman

Am I surprised that Bill Hybels would get up in front of thousands of churches he has been influential in and say "We made a mistake"?

NO! A thousand times no. Because Bill Hybels isn't looking to be right, he is looking to expand the church's reach and influence as he understands it.

Are there alot of spectators at these churches? No doubt. But there also is a core group that is on fire, and multiplying and touching other people's lives in the name of Christ.

Did Bill Hybels fail? Only if one thinks McDonalds is unsuccessful because all of their advertizing isn't effective.

And let me head the criticism off at the pass. Does Bill Hybels preach Acts 2:38 as we do? Not that I am aware of, but he sure seems to be influential in putting others on the path to seeking God which is a great path to be on.

Excellent post, Newman. My family and I have been attending a Willow Creek type church for the last couple of years. Although we have not been deeply involved, I can comment from the spectator level. I can't speak to Bill Hybel's character....I only saw him on a video once. I can, however, speak about what I see in the church we are attending. I am not at all surprised to hear a Willow Creek leader say "We made a mistake." Why? Because Willow Creek churches do not emphasize a need to be constantly right. Oh, that the UPC would stand up and say "We make a mistake" sometime!! I see the Willow Creek churches to be an interesting mix. On the negative side, I see some shallowness, some pop-tart Christianity, some lack of depth. On the positive side, I see vibrant worship services, people who are real and not afraid to be human, real Bible teaching that is valid and relevant to today. In the UPC I also saw some shallowness, some pop-tart Christianity and some lack of depth while at the same time denying all of it. Which would you rather have?

[freeatlast]

willow creek doing it wrong?? I visited WC Church with two other Upci pastors several years ago.

We went to see how they "did church" Just to learn.

Bill Hybels had just returned rom Washington after counseling with Pres Bush after 9-11

The place was bigger than any shoppin mall I have ever seen. The weekly service ministered to over 20,000 every sunday.

We went to the Saturaday night service for teens and twenty somethings.

They were in the middle of a series that was entitled, "What if Jesus really meant what he said?"

I don't think I have ever heard a better leson taught than I did that night and I been OP for 37 of my 56 years.

Sunday morning we went to the main service and heard bill Hybel speak. It was a little deifferent being just days after 9-11.

We were greeted by some of the warmest folks I ever encountered when being a guest at a different church.

The worship was exuburant. Nobody ran the backs of the pews or jumped out of a balcony or anything but God was there in a powerful way and he was being lifted up in worship.

Doing it wrong??? We should all be blessed to do it so wrong.

No matter what our programs we use, bus ministry/VBS/ Home groups/ morning service vs afternoons/ we all fall short. Programs fail so we try something else.

The difference betwwen "us" and the Hybels out there is that Hybel can admit we been wrong.

Shoot we can't even admit we been wrong about...fill in the blank here....all these years.

[Thad]

Funny how so called Pentecostals are defending Willowcreek when in fact the FOUNDER HIMSELF is the one who says they realize something is wrong. not only that, some of the discussion forums from Non Pentecostals i read seem to be agreeing with Hybels

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Thad

Funny how so called Pentecostals are defending Willowcreek when in fact the FOUNDER HIMSELF is the one who says they realize something is wrong. not only that, some of the discussion forums from Non Pentecostals i read seem to be agreeing with Hybels

Nobody is saying Willowcreek is perfect. That's the point.

[hartmann]

its amazing when you find something that someone is admitting they were wrong, it doesnt make the UPC look better, by no means. you are saying CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC We are right and everyone is lookin OUR way.

libs and cons make a lot of mistakes, Humans comes into the picture, like you and I, there is a possiblity we could make a mistake.

I admire and respect someone who can admit they were wrong.

the UPC is now coming to terms with some of their wrongs in the past.
I will always love the UPC. xoxoxoxo

[Thad]

Originally Posted by hartmann

its amazing when you find something that someone is admitting they were wrong, it doesnt make the UPC look better, by no means. you are saying CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC We are right and everyone is lookin OUR way.

libs and cons make a lot of mistakes, Humans comes into the picture, like you and I, there is a possiblity we could make a mistake.

I admire and respect someone who can admit they were wrong.

the UPC is now coming to terms with some of their wrongs in the past.
I will always love the UPC. xoxoxoxo

i certainly am not one of those. being UPC myself, I see how we have such a hard time ever admitting WE were wrong about ANYTHING. that bugs me. however in the case of the seeker friendly church movement (being in CA. I'll use Warran as te example) I saw many of our preachers flocking to his conferences by the grooves to find the "trick" to having a large church. NOT to say we have a corner on all things, but in this case, it was so obvious that much of what they was doing to get people was humanistic reasoning and biblical twisting.