You know... one important thing is that you spoke to him like somebody who has a brain.
People just talk AT their kids... not to them.
From what you have written here I would say that you have a good chance that the shirt will, indeed, not be worn after saturday.
What you end up with is a scenario where you not only survived the possible "crisis" but you came out on the other side having demonstrated that you feel that he has a brain of his own and you respect that. That will go a long ways in the future when other issues come up.
My oldest is 15. I will be traveling your road soon. But, as of now, we still have the most wonderful relationship because we work so hard to speak to our kids like they are actual people and not speak at them with barked commands.
If we do see something where a line needs to be drawn then even that will be handled with respect to them as a person. I will take them to the word of God and will explain to them why we feel this way. We have done this for years and so they are used to the process. They also know that I am not going to come to them with some off the wall scripture that half applies and try to force the word to say what I want it to say. If I can't explain it well then I either need to study more or rethink my position.
Kids will respect authority. Just not authority that lords itself over them and barks commands at them that both of them know they can't back up.
He that winneth souls is wise... he that winneth their kids are brilliant.
It sounds like you did a great job.
Great post, D4T!!
__________________
I hate to see you frown. So wear a bag over your head until you cheer up!
I never said and do not believe that rules transformthe soul...good grief. I don't even know anyone who does believe that.
But we have a dude here who thinks they are evil and hurtful.
That isn't true.
you don't think they're hurtful because you ........ eveyrone and place all the balem on them when they backslide...
I used to do that too... People would leave the church over standards, and I'd go "well, obviously they had a bad attitude about something else"...
But then when I really started looking at them and realizing that some of them really aren't Biblical, it started making more sense to me...
and then I saw (and realized) all the people who were hurting and dying and hid behind thier skirts and no makeup and following all the standards and looking the part and hid it all... They were dying and hurting and no one noticed because, by and large, as long as you can look the part and play the character you are suppose to in church no one notices the pain you are going through and the things that you just can't deal with and need help (help that you won't ask for)...
The rules HAVE and DO hurt people and to claim otherwise shows that either you are blind or heartless...
All I'm saying is we need to realize that and re-evaluate where we stand... It isn't attacking the church and it isn't hating the church, I love the church...
you don't actually know anything about KISS, do you??
I wasn't raised in Church, and I have relatives who are in the music buisness. aside from having people in my family who one of them followed Kiss from their early days, I had a vast collection of vynil.
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Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84
They never worshipped Satan, they just let thier label pretend they did to sell albums... it was all just a show...
If someone were pretending to be a child molester I would suggest you refrain from having him or her watch your children. In the same way we who understand the spirit world those who were worshiping false gods in the ancient times we said to be worshiping demons. Even though the gods were mere wooded objects covered in jewelry they represented and the invocation of unclean spirits. The song I chose from the Destroyer album was god of thunder performed by Gene Simmons on that album. If you go back to my post and re-read the words the song is not glorifying God, but demons. While some may dismiss certain songs or words to be harmless they still keep their meanings regardless of intent. One of the verses of god of thunder states that the individual character in the song was "raised by the Demons" this is just one part now how can one call this song or group harmless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84
if she tells her kid the truth about KISS and makes a big deal about it, he probably will come to the conclusion that it was a silly act and there is no reason to "make waves" at his school over them... this isn't Marylin Manson or Black Sabbath...
Could you re-state your above thought more clearly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84
and the "S"'s aren't thunderbolts, its just a pretty looking font... sheesh, they didn't think this stuff out beyond "this looks cool", "this sounds cool", and "this will sell albums/concert tickets"
Interesting you will say just about anything to be contrary.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
I wasn't raised in Church, and I have relatives who are in the music buisness. aside from having people in my family who one of them followed Kiss from their early days, I had a vast collection of vynil.
see, I'd believe you, but then you say KISS is demonic and it just takes away all your credibility...
Quote:
If someone were pretending to be a child molester I would suggest you refrain from having him or her watch your children. In the same way we who understand the spirit world those who were worshiping false gods in the ancient times we said to be worshiping demons. Even though the gods were mere wooded objects covered in jewelry they represented and the invocation of unclean spirits. The song I chose from the Destroyer album was god of thunder performed by Gene Simmons on that album. If you go back to my post and re-read the words the song is not glorifying God, but demons. While some may dismiss certain songs or words to be harmless they still keep their meanings regardless of intent. One of the verses of god of thunder states that the individual character in the song was "raised by the Demons" this is just one part now how can one call this song or group harmless.
seriously, the song is an act... if you take it seriously it sounds bad, the problem with that is no one involved with it took it seriously, they just wrote stuff that sounded cool and tough and that would make 14 year olds wanna listen to it....
the intent of what you say is important...
Quote:
Could you re-state your above thought more clearly.
simply put, her kid isn't stupid and the bigger deal she makes about it the more he'll look into it and KISS really isn't bad enough to freak out about it, thus he'll see it as an overreaction and look into what else she's overreacting to, and that's a bad road to be on... trust me...
Quote:
Interesting you will say just about anything to be contrary.
no, it has nothing to do with being contrary... It has to do with the FACT that there is no hidden meaning in the name "KISS" or in the font they use for thier logo... Its jsut a font, it just looks cool, nothing more...
I would definitely have a problem with one of my 15 year old twins wearing a KISS shirt. Emblems are important, and I can't imagine why anyone would choose to promote KISS.
My concern is not based on some silly "look under every rock for a devil" preacher's comments and fear-mongering. My concern is with the lifestyle that groups like KISS promote.
To me, wearing that logo says you agree with that lifestyle.
I'm sorry HO, I don't mean to be judgemental, but it would not even be an option for my kids. I would tell them no.
I guess that makes me an overprotective, dictatorial, dad.
Or... the same preacher who has all the rules also goes bonkers over a shirt that some kid is going to wear and misinterprets what everyone says about it to fit into said set of rules.
Rules do not transform the soul. Rules create a facade of transformation.
Transformation is from within and equips one to make proper decisions outside a set of rules. Better said... Transformation equip one to have rule... rather than simply have rules.
The Spirit and the Word bring transformation.
What about the ten commandments? Those are rules.
Love your neighbor as yourself? That's a rule.
I could go on forever.
Don't minimize rules friend. God's rules are expectations. Anyone wanting reconciliation with Him will obey His rules. Those who don't like the rules, and choose to ignore the rules, are gonna get scorched.
The whole idea that relationship negates the need for rules is faulty. In fact, relationships are nurtured through specific expectations being met. Go ahead and break the vow that you made with your wife, and we'll see how long your relationship lasts. Relationships require rules.
We are talking about the very basis of what sin is.
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