Whaaaaaaatt???? What's happening in Canada??

[The Senator]

Originally Posted by Stephanas

May we say that point one has been proven?

1. After more than 100 years of Confederation Canada is still hiding behind the skirts of the Monarchy, too insecure to stand on its own.

Originally Posted by Stephanas

On to point number two. Nobody wants to talk about the incredible burden that the public health care system puts on the backs of working Canadians.

2. An unrealistic socialistic medical system has overburdened tax payers who are forced to flee to the south for relief. Working Canadians are forced to provide free medical care to people too lazy to work.

Canada's Financial House is in Order - Is the USA's?

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty in his November budget update projected the government will post a $7.2 billion surplus this year, and then a $7.3 billion surplus in the 2007-08 fiscal year beginning April 1.

Canada is on track to post its tenth annual budget surplus. A shrinking national debt is a reality in Canada, but an impossible dream in the USA. The reason why so many Americans are living on their credit cards is the example of their spendthrift government. While Canada has its financial house in order, the USA is spending its future generations into unimaginable debt.

[Maple Leaf]

Back to Bioethics

I have been trying to get up to a layman's level in understanding the issues surrounding stem cell research and cloning. I am presently in the Nursery Class, but hoping to graduate to the next level soon (The furniture here is way too small for me, and the other kids are looking at me kind of funny - Kinda like, "What's the old guy doing in our class?")

I have come to the conclusion that much of the discussion, from a spiritual/ethical perspective, revolves around our understanding of when a fertilized egg becomes a person, or, in Scriptural language, becomes a living soul. The answers to this question range from the Pope's perspective that a unique person is created and becomes a living soul at conception, to the view that a fetus only becomes a person at birth, or as some people of faith understand it, undergoes ensoulment at birth.

Between these two positions are a variety of assertions and understandings of when ensoulment takes place. Various points in the fetal development have been identified as the point when a embryo becomes a person. One that I found interesting was a position based on the Biblical premise that the life is in the blood, and so pointed to the point in development when blood first appears in the embryo (Approximately 20 days). Others point to the development of the brain, and with it self-awareness as the defining moment of personhood. Our answer to the question, "When does ensoulment take place," will shape our answer to the ethical questions that surround the use of discarded embryos for stem cell research.

Does anybody have any comment on the "life in the blood" position, or any general comment on the OT view of personhood. Some assert that Judaism held/holds birth as the moment of ensoulment, which opens a door to abortion for permissible cause. The "life in the blood" theory would allow for the use of embryos for research while disallowing abortion. The ensoulment at conception would, from a Christian perspective, disallow both abortion and the use of embryonic stem cells for research, and would demand that we view even the fertilized ovum as a living soul. If you have read to this point, you must be extremely bored or have some interest in this topic. If you do have an interest, why not share your thoughts; they can't be more elementary than mine.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Oh come on. She definitely needs a new do. Laura looks smart and "modern".

Modern as a la-z-boy recliner with that outfit!

<shudders>

[Stephanas]

Originally Posted by The Senator

Canada's Financial House is in Order - Is the USA's?



Canada is on track to post its tenth annual budget surplus. A shrinking national debt is a reality in Canada, but an impossible dream in the USA. The reason why so many Americans are living on their credit cards is the example of their spendthrift government. While Canada has its financial house in order, the USA is spending its future generations into unimaginable debt.

Budget Surplus is just political doublespeak for Excessive Taxation. The only reason that any government has a surplus is because they over taxed the tax payers.

[Rachel]

Bah.. Who wants to talk about bugets and taxations?

Sorry for the delay Maple. Hopefully you'll get a response today. I'm at work for the day and yesterday, we had a campus ministry barbecue (a great success by the way).

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Back to Bioethics
Does anybody have any comment on the "life in the blood" position, or any general comment on the OT view of personhood. Some assert that Judaism held/holds birth as the moment of ensoulment, which opens a door to abortion for permissible cause. The "life in the blood" theory would allow for the use of embryos for research while disallowing abortion. The ensoulment at conception would, from a Christian perspective, disallow both abortion and the use of embryonic stem cells for research, and would demand that we view even the fertilized ovum as a living soul. If you have read to this point, you must be extremely bored or have some interest in this topic. If you do have an interest, why not share your thoughts; they can't be more elementary than mine.

Just before I take off, I find the "life in the blood" position very interesting. I can't say as I am convinced because cells are already dividing prior to the appearance of blood. And if the embryo didn't consist of living cells, well, division wouldn't be occurring. Cells are the basic unit of life, the smallest unit that is capable of life function. The first time the fertilized egg divides - it's life (to me personally) because at the point, it starts to develop, to grow and will continue to grow and then differentiate.

I think we have to bring in the point of viability and potential too. Embryos created outside the womb - yes they have great potential BUT they will never be viable life until implanted. Even so, not all fertilized eggs are going to continue to develop because unless they implant, they'll never grow - whether embryos have been created through in vitro fertilization or not. So.. as far as embryos that sit in a lab grow, yes, I believe they should be treated with the utmost respect.

At some point, I'll probably share my actual full thoughts on the matter - not just points or opinions.. but yes, I believe in the sanctity of human life. And that as well, translates differently too.

[Barb]

Good morning Saints of the Most High!!

I pray you all have a blessed day and remain safe, in Jesus Name!!

[TRIPLE E]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Back to Bioethics

I have been trying to get up to a layman's level in understanding the issues surrounding stem cell research and cloning. I am presently in the Nursery Class, but hoping to graduate to the next level soon (The furniture here is way too small for me, and the other kids are looking at me kind of funny - Kinda like, "What's the old guy doing in our class?")

I have come to the conclusion that much of the discussion, from a spiritual/ethical perspective, revolves around our understanding of when a fertilized egg becomes a person, or, in Scriptural language, becomes a living soul. The answers to this question range from the Pope's perspective that a unique person is created and becomes a living soul at conception, to the view that a fetus only becomes a person at birth, or as some people of faith understand it, undergoes ensoulment at birth.

Between these two positions are a variety of assertions and understandings of when ensoulment takes place. Various points in the fetal development have been identified as the point when a embryo becomes a person. One that I found interesting was a position based on the Biblical premise that the life is in the blood, and so pointed to the point in development when blood first appears in the embryo (Approximately 20 days). Others point to the development of the brain, and with it self-awareness as the defining moment of personhood. Our answer to the question, "When does ensoulment take place," will shape our answer to the ethical questions that surround the use of discarded embryos for stem cell research.

Does anybody have any comment on the "life in the blood" position, or any general comment on the OT view of personhood. Some assert that Judaism held/holds birth as the moment of ensoulment, which opens a door to abortion for permissible cause. The "life in the blood" theory would allow for the use of embryos for research while disallowing abortion. The ensoulment at conception would, from a Christian perspective, disallow both abortion and the use of embryonic stem cells for research, and would demand that we view even the fertilized ovum as a living soul. If you have read to this point, you must be extremely bored or have some interest in this topic. If you do have an interest, why not share your thoughts; they can't be more elementary than mine.

Just wondering if you are suggesting there can be the life without ensoulment?

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Barb

Good morning Saints of the Most High!!

I pray you all have a blessed day and remain safe, in Jesus Name!!

I know I'm "safe in Jesus"! It's being safe in my car on the streets of Surrey, BC that I'm concerned about.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I know I'm "safe in Jesus"! It's being safe in my car on the streets of Surrey, BC that I'm concerned about.

LOL!! "In Jesus Name" was the end of my prayer, Elder...