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| Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
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09-09-2007, 01:18 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
Bump
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You'll have to wait on the Trinitarian to answer it ..... He's asleep.  oloroid
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09-09-2007, 01:59 AM
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His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
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09-09-2007, 02:11 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
LOL ... you can't say those three statements without qualifying it .... sad.
Insecurities.
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I can say those three statements without qualifying it, and I believe Praxeas can too...
He who is the Father is God!
He who is the Son is God!
He who is the Holy Spirit is God!
But I can also take that logic to the next level, whereas the trinitarian cannot!
He (singular) who is the father, is the son...and the spirit!
On the contrary, the trinitarian would say:
"He who is the father, IS NOT He who is the son"
"He who is the father, IS NOT He who is the spirit..."
and so forth and so on...
To the trinitarian, there are three "he's" in God...
To the oneness, there is only one "He", who is the almight, YHWH/Jesus!
__________________
...or something like that... 
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09-09-2007, 02:21 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDylan
I can say those three statements without qualifying it, and I believe Praxeas can too...
He who is the Father is God!
He who is the Son is God!
He who is the Holy Spirit is God!
But I can also take that logic to the next level, whereas the trinitarian cannot!
He (singular) who is the father, is the son...and the spirit!
On the contrary, the trinitarian would say:
"He who is the father, IS NOT He who is the son"
"He who is the father, IS NOT He who is the spirit..."
and so forth and so on...
To the trinitarian, there are three "he's" in God...
To the oneness, there is only one "He", who is the almight, YHWH/Jesus!
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Can you see what I mean, Dan? This is a Oneness believer justifying his beliefs to another Oneness believer about who God is. We shouldn't have to do this. This should be common ground between all of us. This is what we should be doing with Trinitarians, not between Oneness folks.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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09-09-2007, 02:41 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer
All Trinitarians agree that God only has one will. The difinition I posted doesn't all apply to God. One cannot help but notice the "personal pronouns" applied to each of the "Persons" in the Godhead.
The grace of the [tou] Lord Jesus Christ, and [kai] the love of God [tou theou (lit. “the God”)], and [kai] the fellowship of the [tou] Holy Spirit be with you all
To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion for ever and ever
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You can call them 'personal' pronouns if you wish to justify your use of the word, person, for God or just plain pronouns. But the use of these pronouns can be applied to the God of the OT who calls himself "I Am". That is a singular pronoun which means one entity or to you, one person. But you say God is three persons. Equivocation.
Yet when you speak of the differences between the Son and the Father who both say "I" in the NT you want them to be different persons. You place emphasis on pronouns correctly in the NT but misapply them in the OT. There are two in view, the Son and the Father, but not two persons. Two manifestions or modes of being of the one God who in the OT calls himself, I AM. How is this possible? Just as you said earlier, Jesus spoke in his humanity. Jesus as a man thought, felt, spoke as one of us. He had a God. John 20:17 Just as Praxeas has tried to explain. Jesus as man percieved himself to be a man because he was a man. Though he was God revealed in flesh, he never thought of himself as God. This is why we see a "personal distinction" between the Father and the Son.
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. John 8:40
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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09-09-2007, 02:41 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Do you see what I mean, Dan? This is a Oneness believer justifying his beliefs to another Oneness believer about who God is. We shouldn't have to do this. This should be common ground between all of us. This is what we should be doing with Trinitarians, not between Oneness folks.
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Mizpeh, I am concerned that Dan may only be a professing "oneness folk"... but in reality, in his mind the only difference between oneness and trintarians are semantics. What I have observed from Dan in this thread is a constant assault on basic oneness logic and presentation of their theology. The problem here is when a person fails to realize the real difference between oneness and trinitarian theology, they have in effect accepted a theology that embraces a godhead that is contrary to the God presented in the bible. The three-in-one God of the trinitarians is a completely foreign concept from the God of the Hebrew scriptures and Greek New Testament. Any theology that presents God as anything else but ONE is not a biblical theology. Three-in-one IS NOT one.
Deut 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
__________________
...or something like that...
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09-09-2007, 02:51 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDylan
Mizpeh, I am concerned that Dan may only be a professing "oneness folk"... but in reality, in his mind the only difference between oneness and trintarians are semantics. What I have observed from Dan in this thread is a constant assault on basic oneness logic and presentation of their theology. The problem here is when a person fails to realize the real difference between oneness and trinitarian theology, they have in effect accepted a theology that embraces a godhead that is contrary to the God presented in the bible. The three-in-one God of the trinitarians is a completely foreign concept from the God of the Hebrew scriptures and Greek New Testament. Any theology that presents God as anything else but ONE is not a biblical theology. Three-in-one IS NOT one.
Deut 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. |
The thing that bothers me is Dan will read your reply to his post and instead of affirming what you say with an Amen or I agree, he will be offensive and resist your remarks with something contrary. He says he is Oneness but fights against those that hold his own doctrine to support an opposite opinion. 
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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09-09-2007, 10:27 AM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDylan
I can say those three statements without qualifying it, and I believe Praxeas can too...
He who is the Father is God!
He who is the Son is God!
He who is the Holy Spirit is God!
But I can also take that logic to the next level, whereas the trinitarian cannot!
He (singular) who is the father, is the son...and the spirit!
On the contrary, the trinitarian would say:
"He who is the father, IS NOT He who is the son"
"He who is the father, IS NOT He who is the spirit..."
and so forth and so on...
To the trinitarian, there are three "he's" in God...
To the oneness, there is only one "He", who is the almight, YHWH/Jesus!
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You have qualified it ...
No one disagrees with your qualification.
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09-09-2007, 10:42 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
Help me out BOOM ... You accuse me of promoting 3 persons ...
You see that in this post? I see One.
It will take a some acrobatics to pin tri-theism on me.
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Dan Trinitarians aren't Tritheists. So much for toleration. Well at least Dan finally stopped attacking Oneness and here attacks Trinity, albeit a strawman argument oloroid
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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09-09-2007, 10:43 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Can you see what I mean, Dan? This is a Oneness believer justifying his beliefs to another Oneness believer about who God is. We shouldn't have to do this. This should be common ground between all of us. This is what we should be doing with Trinitarians, not between Oneness folks.
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Sadly DA does not just stand for Daniel Alicea but also Devils Advocate
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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