John3 and Romans2: Part2

[Amanah]

Wow! Thank you.
I definitely would not have gotten there on my own.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

See, Don? This is why I've decided to just view the thread, rather than go back and forth with you. Just posting this for whoever.

Welcome back, elder statesman of AFF. Your keen insight into many matters is most appreciated by most everyone.

Can we agree to be friends? Can we agree to fight fair? I hope so.

An example of unfair or distorting or nitpicking would be as the following: Could I call you a liar because you said you were leaving the thread and didn't? If I wanted to nit-pick your points and distort what you say on details, ignoring the gist of what you say, then I would say you are a liar because you said you are leaving. But because this is only an example of the tactics you use I'll not say this. I don't say you are a liar because I prefer to speak on the main points and not use such tactics to discredit yours. I repeat -- WELCOME BACK. You are not a liar. Technically, you just said goodbye and have changed your mind and have come back. Everyone should be ok with doing this and not be called a liar for doing so by a nitpicker. I'll not because I prefer not to nitpick.

You choose to be technically precise in your NT theology but when it comes to the points people make this precision goes out the window and you distort what they say and mean, to mean other things than they've said. You demonstrate an ability to be precise with the scriptures but discard this ability when you tear down by distortion another's arguments. Be fair. Use your abilities consistently.

For the record: Everyone has skillfully avoided the direct question I had asked about Cornelius by not giving a direct answer, Yes or No. I had asked if the righteous man described in Ac10.2 would have gone to heaven or hell, should he have died before meeting Peter and getting born again. No one wants to say Yes to hell because that would make them show God as unjust in sending a person who lives right, to hell. No one wants to make God appear as unjust. But your theology does what you are afraid to answer in a direct answer. Adjust your NT salvation theology to accomodate those like Cornelius, granting them a place in heaven thereby. (But I know what your precision will say. Cornelius wasn't born again, therefore he didn't have the righteousness that comes from the new birth. Therefore he isn't righteous and going to hell. You'll say this but ignore the opinion of those who met him describing him as righteous. Technically you are right but wrong on a practical level.) Paul would have had no qualms of saying No to hell. Would Cornelius have gotten the rewards of those in the Kingdom? No, but he wouldn't have fried. Perhaps, if you are in the class who like to lean heavily on the precision kind of theology that would condemn the likes of him, perhaps you would clearly state your position on the many who have been baptized but not haven't received the Holy Ghost. These are not born again and do they also go to hell along with Cornelius according to your theology? Do you see what your desire to be technically precise in your theology is doing to righteous people? You are technically precise using these verses you quote but you've left out the heart and justness of God who goes to great lengths in many ways in providing means to get into heaven. Or rather, could these who have received remission of sins gain entrance to heaven, but not receive the rewards of those who are born again? What would a just God do? Does your theology give a place in heaven for these who are not technically born again, just baptized? Paul does, according to Ro2.12-16. I've repeatedly shown that these are using faith, though you would persistently insist to describe them as trying to get into heaven by good works alone, ignoring my words.

Or rather, like just Abraham or Enoch, who had no law, because the law was not yet given, but considered righteous by their faith, obtain a home in heaven though not born again? Can God be just and let these in who aren't born again and not let just Cornelius in? Why would God change his measurement means when the situations are similar to satisfy your desire for technical adherence to precise new birth theology. Jesus said not to use right judgment. By your technical precision of using the scriptures you present an unjust God to the world. Shame! Thankfully you've been frank in your theology and giving someone the opportunity to expose its weaknesses, hopefull for good changes. If he lets Abraham in then he lets Cornelius in, because there is no respect of persons he uses the same measuring stick. Thank God that he isn't so technically precise as you'all who can skilfully line up many verses and condemn righteous people to hell thereby.

-signed, as you've said of me (ouch), your sad, dishonourable, intellectually dishonest Don Friesen.

[Amanah]

Cornelius, a devout Gentile, was not saved until he obeyed the Gospel message preached by Peter (Acts 10:33-43). Although he was a God-fearer and gave alms (Acts 10:1-2), he still needed to hear and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved (Acts 10:43). Peter declared, "Whoever believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name" (Acts 10:43). Cornelius received the Holy Spirit and was baptized after believing (Acts 10:44-48). This shows that his faith was incomplete until he obeyed the Gospel, demonstrating that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ and obedience to the Gospel message Romans 10:16-17,

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[Amanah]

Wow, Paul, the Apostle to the gentiles was a nit picker

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Wow, Paul, the Apostle to the gentiles was a nit picker

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

He sure picked him some nits.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Welcome back, elder statesman of AFF. Your keen insight into many matters is most appreciated by most everyone.

Can we agree to be friends? Can we agree to fight fair? I hope so.

An example of unfair or distorting or nitpicking would be as the following: Could I call you a liar because you said you were leaving the thread and didn't? If I wanted to nit-pick your points and distort what you say on details, ignoring the gist of what you say, then I would say you are a liar because you said you are leaving. But because this is only an example of the tactics you use I'll not say this. I don't say you are a liar because I prefer to speak on the main points and not use such tactics to discredit yours. I repeat -- WELCOME BACK. You are not a liar. Technically, you just said goodbye and have changed your mind and have come back. Everyone should be ok with doing this and not be called a liar for doing so by a nitpicker. I'll not because I prefer not to nitpick.

You choose to be technically precise in your NT theology but when it comes to the points people make this precision goes out the window and you distort what they say and mean, to mean other things than they've said. You demonstrate an ability to be precise with the scriptures but discard this ability when you tear down by distortion another's arguments. Be fair. Use your abilities consistently.

For the record: Everyone has skillfully avoided the direct question I had asked about Cornelius by not giving a direct answer, Yes or No. I had asked if the righteous man described in Ac10.2 would have gone to heaven or hell, should he have died before meeting Peter and getting born again. No one wants to say Yes to hell because that would make them show God as unjust in sending a person who lives right, to hell. No one wants to make God appear as unjust. But your theology does what you are afraid to answer in a direct answer. Adjust your NT salvation theology to accomodate those like Cornelius, granting them a place in heaven thereby. (But I know what your precision will say. Cornelius wasn't born again, therefore he didn't have the righteousness that comes from the new birth. Therefore he isn't righteous and going to hell. You'll say this but ignore the opinion of those who met him describing him as righteous. Technically you are right but wrong on a practical level.) Paul would have had no qualms of saying No to hell. Would Cornelius have gotten the rewards of those in the Kingdom? No, but he wouldn't have fried. Perhaps, if you are in the class who like to lean heavily on the precision kind of theology that would condemn the likes of him, perhaps you would clearly state your position on the many who have been baptized but not haven't received the Holy Ghost. These are not born again and do they also go to hell along with Cornelius according to your theology? Do you see what your desire to be technically precise in your theology is doing to righteous people? You are technically precise using these verses you quote but you've left out the heart and justness of God who goes to great lengths in many ways in providing means to get into heaven. Or rather, could these who have received remission of sins gain entrance to heaven, but not receive the rewards of those who are born again? What would a just God do? Does your theology give a place in heaven for these who are not technically born again, just baptized? Paul does, according to Ro2.12-16. I've repeatedly shown that these are using faith, though you would persistently insist to describe them as trying to get into heaven by good works alone, ignoring my words.

Or rather, like just Abraham or Enoch, who had no law, because the law was not yet given, but considered righteous by their faith, obtain a home in heaven though not born again? Can God be just and let these in who aren't born again and not let just Cornelius in? Why would God change his measurement means when the situations are similar to satisfy your desire for technical adherence to precise new birth theology. Jesus said not to use right judgment. By your technical precision of using the scriptures you present an unjust God to the world. Shame! Thankfully you've been frank in your theology and giving someone the opportunity to expose its weaknesses, hopefull for good changes. If he lets Abraham in then he lets Cornelius in, because there is no respect of persons he uses the same measuring stick. Thank God that he isn't so technically precise as you'all who can skilfully line up many verses and condemn righteous people to hell thereby.

-signed, as you've said of me (ouch), your sad, dishonourable, intellectually dishonest Don Friesen.

I asked Esaias to continue to post because I appreciate his thoughts.

You on the other hand, no so much.

Let’s take this post for instance. This was uncalled for, and if it was an attempt at sarcasm (which I do appreciate from time to time) you stink at it.

Anyway Don, you don’t read posts and as far technically precise? We are talking about scripture? Therefore you need to get your story straight. If all you want to do is troll and bore us with your opinions on the Bible, then spare us.

Don, you are wrong, and Esaias is right.

But you know that already.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

For the record: Everyone has skillfully avoided the direct question I had asked about Cornelius by not giving a direct answer, Yes or No. I had asked if the righteous man described in Ac10.2 would have gone to heaven or hell, should he have died before meeting Peter and getting born again. No one wants to say Yes to hell because that would make them show God as unjust in sending a person who lives right, to hell. No one wants to make God appear as unjust.

I wonder if this guy is actually from Ohio?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I wonder if this guy is actually from Ohio?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I wonder if this guy is actually from Ohio?

Was Sean from Ohio?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Was Sean from Ohio?

Sean is from California.

Sean’s posting is a tad bit more chaotic.