Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

I attended a church where the pastor told the women receiving benefits that they had to tithe on their food stamps- converted to cash.

Originally Posted by diakonos

Also, if something was on sale, the percent you saved was considered “increase.”

I do believe we all have experienced or have heard of situations where individuals abused teachings on “giving.” Whether tithing, or freewill offerings. The love of money is the root of all evil.

Missionaries showing photos of supposed “ revivals.” Or pictures of half naked street children gobbling down morsels of food. They aren’t asking for a tithe, but asking for as much as your guilty conscience will force you to give. I’m certainly not saying all missionaries employ these tactics. Just like not all ministers abuse their congregations on giving to the ministry.

[Sabby]

Been away awhile but interesting to see this familiar subject discussed.

I never required tithing from our parishioners, but it was an independent Oneness church, not UPCI. We never lacked for funds.
The obligatory tithe can be a trap. There are far too many nuances to the preaching of that doctrine (YES, it is a "doctrine") to list them on AFF.

As a former short-term missionary and one that continues to financially support missions, it does take money. That, in my opinion, is a separate discussion, not to be conflated with a tithing thread.

The western business church paradigm requires a stream of funding to survive, which forces a tithe. Without mandatory funding (tithing) Ministries will collapse under the financial weight of their obligations. This is not an endorsement of tithing, by the way.
Tithing is not salvational, but you would never know it by actions (and bylaws) of some organizations.

Just a segway, but many times tithing is dedicated to church (or denominational/organizational) branding, which is a strange way to line item a tithe.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Sabby

Been away awhile but interesting to see this familiar subject discussed.

I never required tithing from our parishioners, but it was an independent Oneness church, not UPCI. We never lacked for funds.
The obligatory tithe can be a trap. There are far too many nuances to the preaching of that doctrine (YES, it is a "doctrine") to list them on AFF.

As a former short-term missionary and one that continues to financially support missions, it does take money. That, in my opinion, is a separate discussion, not to be conflated with a tithing thread.

The western business church paradigm requires a stream of funding to survive, which forces a tithe. Without mandatory funding (tithing) Ministries will collapse under the financial weight of their obligations. This is not an endorsement of tithing, by the way.
Tithing is not salvational, but you would never know it by actions (and bylaws) of some organizations.

Just a segway, but many times tithing is dedicated to church (or denominational/organizational) branding, which is a strange way to line item a tithe.

Thanks for posting.

What I have seen work is simply expressing to the congregation the needs, including even salary to the pastor (yes, many people want a salaried pastor), and then you ask them how much they commit to give monthly, and do the math, and a budget with that number. Very similar to what the UPCI does with the faith promises but without the “faith” push, but simply a “love” push.

There are many churches in the USA with buildings and full time pastors that run without the modern tithing doctrine. It is possible.

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I do believe we all have experienced or have heard of situations where individuals abused teachings on “giving.” Whether tithing, or freewill offerings. The love of money is the root of all evil.

Missionaries showing photos of supposed “ revivals.” Or pictures of half naked street children gobbling down morsels of food. They aren’t asking for a tithe, but asking for as much as your guilty conscience will force you to give. I’m certainly not saying all missionaries employ these tactics. Just like not all ministers abuse their congregations on giving to the ministry.

I often show pictures of our feeding programs...the people know we take pictures so the people that make it possible will know where their money goes... We have many that today serve the Lord that we once fed when they were small ...in fact I have two boys helping me right now who lived in the "favela" for years and now live with us...I think if missionaries have feeding programs they should show where the money for that goes with pictures...just like if I am building a church with funds I reaised or am raising I show pictures....I try to keep good records of course I am not perfect but do my very best so people have no doubt where their money goes.

Right now we are working on what we call the farm project (around 88 acres) of land and we plant lots of cassava ( a potato like root) used especially in north Brazil for almost every meal...we also have fish ponds and just finsihed another one and we plan to stock it soon. And for the interest of those that may have questions this land is in the name of the national church here...we work first for God and then for them.

I know this is about tithing but since feeding children were mentioned and that has been my burden for the last 55 years ...just thought I might mention our position.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Sabby

The western business church paradigm requires a stream of funding to survive, which forces a tithe. Without mandatory funding (tithing) Ministries will collapse under the financial weight of their obligations. This is not an endorsement of tithing, by the way.
Tithing is not salvational, but you would never know it by actions (and bylaws) of some organizations.

Just a segway, but many times tithing is dedicated to church (or denominational/organizational) branding, which is a strange way to line item a tithe.

Absolutely!

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I often show pictures of our feeding programs...the people know we take pictures so the people that make it possible will know where their money goes... We have many that today serve the Lord that we once fed when they were small ...in fact I have two boys helping me right now who lived in the "favela" for years and now live with us...I think if missionaries have feeding programs they should show where the money for that goes with pictures...just like if I am building a church with funds I reaised or am raising I show pictures....I try to keep good records of course I am not perfect but do my very best so people have no doubt where their money goes.

When we support foreign missions, we love the pictures they send us. In general Sis, except God himself usually people don’t understand what foreign missions go through unless they become apart of it themselves.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Absolutely!

It is true that requires money if you want buildings, but it was also the case for Synagogues in Israel in the time of Jesus. Nothing wrong with building and their expenses, as long as it is wisely managed to avoid excesses. Nothing wrong with financially supporting teachers, pastors, and missionaries either, but that's a long discussion for those deeply oppose to it.

So, the statement "The western business church paradigm requires a stream of funding to survive, which forces a tithe." is not factual. There are plenty of examples of churches in USA and other countries flourishing financially without the 10% tax on the saints.

[Sabby]

I somewhat agree with you about the necessity of tithing for the brick-and-mortar church to survive. For the home missionary pastor that is pressured to build a building that will validate the ministry...the funding must come from somewhere. In those churches I helped start, tithing was an absolute. And it mattered whether it was on your "capital gains", your gross or your net after taxes.
It is a given that running a church "is a business". I have been in district and local church business meetings (no pun meant) when that particular comment is made. How do you enforce the stream of funding? If I said 100% of the time, then I apologize, but in my observation, MOST of the time, funding support is through a tithe.
It would be interesting to see how many brick and mortar churches, especially home mission churches would start were the doctrine of tithing in Oneness churches ceased.
Segway: I don't see a tithe connection at all between Old Testament Jewish synagogues and North American churches being built, given the fact that the OT tithing was primarily agricultural (for the Levites) and for the upkeep of the 1st and 2nd Temples.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Sabby

I somewhat agree with you about the necessity of tithing for the brick-and-mortar church to survive. For the home missionary pastor that is pressured to build a building that will validate the ministry...the funding must come from somewhere. In those churches I helped start, tithing was an absolute. And it mattered whether it was on your "capital gains", your gross or your net after taxes.
It is a given that running a church "is a business". I have been in district and local church business meetings (no pun meant) when that particular comment is made. How do you enforce the stream of funding? If I said 100% of the time, then I apologize, but in my observation, MOST of the time, funding support is through a tithe.
It would be interesting to see how many brick and mortar churches, especially home mission churches would start were the doctrine of tithing in Oneness churches ceased.
Segway: I don't see a tithe connection at all between Old Testament Jewish synagogues and North American churches being built, given the fact that the OT tithing was primarily agricultural (for the Levites) and for the upkeep of the 1st and 2nd Temples.

Synagogues were supported with voluntary giving, not tithing. Financing a synagogue was an act of love.

”for he loves our nation, and he built our synagogue for us.”“
....Luke‬ ..7‬:..5‬ ..WEBUS‬‬

The Iglesia Gentil de Cristo in Arizona, for example, have buildings, and they not only believe in free will giving, but they condemn the modern teaching of tithing from the pulpit. They have many churches in Mexico, and several here in Arizona, and expanding. They are Holiness, Oneness, and Acts 2:38 believers.

The website tithing.com has also large list of churches in the USA that do not preach tithing and they have buildings and even salaried pastors, and they also expand and create other churches. The facts are out there.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Synagogues were supported with voluntary giving, not tithing. Financing a synagogue was an act of love.

”for he loves our nation, and he built our synagogue for us.”“
....Luke‬ ..7‬:..5‬ ..WEBUS‬‬

The Iglesia Gentil de Cristo in Arizona, for example, have buildings, and they not only believe in free will giving, but they condemn the modern teaching of tithing from the pulpit. They have many churches in Mexico, and several here in Arizona, and expanding. They are Holiness, Oneness, and Acts 2:38 believers.

The website tithing.com has also large list of churches in the USA that do not preach tithing and they have buildings and even salaried pastors, and they also expand and create other churches. The facts are out there.

An interesting fact: The Church of Christ does not teach that tithing is a Christian principle. I’m sure a lot of people on here would think that they are not part of the “true church”. Many apostolics believe that we are the only church that Jesus will return for. We are the “real” church with the “true” truth. We are the church that Jesus referred to when he said the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

So, since we are the “real” church. Since we are the powerful church. Since we are the church that can storm the very gates of hell.

Why do we feel compelled to lie about tithing? Doesn’t that seem a bit “unpowerful”?

Doesn’t it seem weak?

Doesn’t it seem unChrist-like?

Jesus is the way, the TRUTH and the life. There are many scriptures that say things like He was full of grace and truth. So it seems awfully strange and strangely awful that the church that is so powerful that the very gates of hell cannot withstand its incredible power, cannot survive without the many and diverse lies required to propagate the typical modern doctrine of tithing on the unsuspecting sheep that the pastors are supposed to be protecting from . . .

False doctrine.

Because. . .
ALL LIARS

Rev.21

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Now don’t go telling that I said all preachers that preach that tithing is necessary or needful or even for New Testament Christians (or even Jews) are going to hell. I didn’t say that. I merely posted a scripture. You are welcome to figure it out for yourselves.

The modern tithe doctrine is not a lie. It is instead, a pack of lies. From what it is to whom it’s given, the lies vary widely from one denomination to another and from church to church within denominations. Some preachers say it all goes to them. Others will “graciously” share with the church. But the fear prevails that the “church” absolutely cannot survive without the tithe. Which of course is another lie.

Think about it: “We cannot survive without the tithe.”
The premise is that we must lie to collect the tithe, so we (who are presumably the true church) can exist.

On the other hand, we have the word of God telling us that we will burn in hell if we lie (presumably even about tithing). On the other (other) hand we have an entire denomination that seems to be financially solvent (nice buildings and congregations of people) that are doing fine while telling the truth about tithing.

Meanwhile we are twisting scripture, skipping verses, quoting passages completely out of context and ignoring others, which is very problematic in itself.
What we do to include tithing reminds me of a scripture:

2Cor.4

[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

We handle the word of God deceitfully, which Paul said that we who have this “ministry” would not do, but would manifest the truth. When it comes to tithes we as a movement do not manifest truth. We can’t afford to. We have to lie to the sheep, and in the process of lying to the sheep we preclude ourselves (according to scripture) from being the true church.

It is quite a dilemma.