History of Tithes in the Church

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Tithing and Giving are two different things.

It is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to tithe today (if you follow the rules of tithing set forth in Deut 14, Deut 26)

The New Testament teaches all sorts of Giving:
Giving to support the work of the ministry (1 cor 9:13-15)
Giving to the less fortunate (James 2:16, Eph 4:28)
Giving to the needs of other believers (Rom 12:13)
Giving not of COMPULSION (2 Cor 9:7)
Giving cheerful (2 Cor 9:7)
Giving is better than receiving (Acts 20:35)
Giving to all that ask of you (Matt 5:42)
Giving in DEED and not just in words (James 2:15-17)

And many others…

If you purpose in your heart to set aside 10% of your wealth to giving, fine. If you want to give more or less, fine. Let everyone give according to their faith.

One thing though: he that soweth sparingly reaps sparingly and he that soweth bountifully reaps bountifully (2 Cor 9:6)

:high five

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Tithing and Giving are two different things.

It is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to tithe today (if you follow the rules of tithing set forth in Deut 14, Deut 26)

The New Testament teaches all sorts of Giving:
Giving to support the work of the ministry (1 cor 9:13-15)
Giving to the less fortunate (James 2:16, Eph 4:28)
Giving to the needs of other believers (Rom 12:13)
Giving not of COMPULSION (2 Cor 9:7)
Giving cheerful (2 Cor 9:7)
Giving is better than receiving (Acts 20:35)
Giving to all that ask of you (Matt 5:42)
Giving in DEED and not just in words (James 2:15-17)

And many others…

If you purpose in your heart to set aside 10% of your wealth to giving, fine. If you want to give more or less, fine. Let everyone give according to their faith.

One thing though: he that soweth sparingly reaps sparingly and he that soweth bountifully reaps bountifully (2 Cor 9:6)

Originally Posted by good samaritan

:high five

Great! Awesome!! Let's then remove the requirement to give 10% in order to be an official member of the congregation, or to preach to the congregation, or to be a pastor, a teacher, a singer in the choir, etc...!!! What church do you guys pastor?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Great! Awesome!! Let's then remove the requirement to give 10% in order to be an official member of the congregation, or to preach to the congregation, or to be a pastor, a teacher, a singer in the choir, etc...!!!

100% agree

Originally Posted by coksiw

What church do you guys pastor?

None

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Since you are learning from the law indiscriminately (or really picking and choosing?), do you practice animal sacrifice to worship God as well? See:

• It was practiced voluntarily as an act of worship even before the Law of Moses by Noah, Abraham, and others,
• it was also voluntary and mandatory in the Law of Moses,
• and it was also endorsed by Jesus (Mar 1:44, Mat 5:23-24).

The same criteria you use to conclude you "learned from the law that we must practice tithing" of the increase of the land to levites, ... oh, excuse me, of money to pastors.

I can't wait to see when you guys will start practicing animal sacrifices to worship.

It's just giving. Open your eyes.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Great! Awesome!! Let's then remove the requirement to give 10% in order to be an official member of the congregation, or to preach to the congregation, or to be a pastor, a teacher, a singer in the choir, etc...!!! What church do you guys pastor?

Our church doesn’t have any such requirement anyway. If you will reread my previous posts you will see that I was saying it isn’t a NT commandment. If it is not a NT commandment it is not required. Although, if someone isn’t demonstrating any financial support at all, I would not want them in any kind of leadership.

On a side note, in about ten years of pastoring, I have noticed the people who are presumably tithers hardly ever need financial assistance. It is most often the people who have no record of giving that are usually the people needing help with their bills and groceries. Is that because they don’t tithe? probably not, but it may be because they have little financial disciplines and frivolously spend money that they should practice good stewardship with.

That is why I recommend tithing, because it helps develop stewardship. There are sometimes we all have emergencies and we cannot give, but If we do not make giving to our local church a part of our budget most people will not give at all.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Since you are learning from the law indiscriminately (or really picking and choosing?), do you practice animal sacrifice to worship God as well? See:

• It was practiced voluntarily as an act of worship even before the Law of Moses by Noah, Abraham, and others,
• it was also voluntary and mandatory in the Law of Moses,
• and it was also endorsed by Jesus (Mar 1:44, Mat 5:23-24).

The same criteria you use to conclude you "learned from the law that we must practice tithing" of the increase of the land to levites, ... oh, excuse me, of money to pastors.

I can't wait to see when you guys will start practicing animal sacrifices to worship.

BTW, I also disagree with the pastor receiving all the tithe. Most church resources are from tithes that is received. General offerings is usually a much smaller amount. I have seen pastors who seem to thrive while the church general funds are minuscule. I personally believe all tithes and offerings that are undesignated should go into the general church treasury and the pastor should receive a reasonable salary based upon the churches income and expenses. All of this should be approved by a deacon board. If it is a small church, the pastor should just get a job and supplement their income until the church grows to the point of supporting him full time.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's just giving. Open your eyes.

I need to open my eyes to something that it was not taught or practiced by the Apostles in the NT? You are the one deviating from God's will, not me.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Our church doesn’t have any such requirement anyway. If you will reread my previous posts you will see that I was saying it isn’t a NT commandment. If it is not a NT commandment it is not required. Although, if someone isn’t demonstrating any financial support at all, I would not want them in any kind of leadership.

On a side note, in about ten years of pastoring, I have noticed the people who are presumably tithers hardly ever need financial assistance. It is most often the people who have no record of giving that are usually the people needing help with their bills and groceries. Is that because they don’t tithe? probably not, but it may be because they have little financial disciplines and frivolously spend money that they should practice good stewardship with.

That is why I recommend tithing, because it helps develop stewardship. There are sometimes we all have emergencies and we cannot give, but If we do not make giving to our local church a part of our budget most people will not give at all.

10% should not be used as a recommended amount either. It is not biblical, and the hired servants, small traders, and other small income professionals (fishers, carpenters, etc...) in the OT were not asked or recommended to give 10% of "all their income" either. The tithing in the modern church was never applied that way in the Scriptures, not even in the OT. If you recommend it, you are setting a bar, and you are naturally creating a moral issue in the congregation, and those that should not be giving that much because Biblically should provide first for a needed parent or worse, their own, are going to need "an exception" by the leadership, which then will be received with "oh brother you just don't have that much faith" because again, it becomes a moral issue when you "recommend" it publicly.

False doctrines have negative consequences to the congregation and the saints. You guys won't see it because you benefit from it.

And yes, it is totally possible that God blesses those saints that give, and those that tithe, because God is merciful. But no, the leadership teaching such a doctrine and even "recommending" it is outside of the blueprint left to the church by God through the Apostles.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

10% should not be used as a recommended amount either. It is not biblical, and the hired servants, small traders, and other small income professionals (fishers, carpenters, etc...) in the OT were not asked or recommended to give 10% of "all their income" either. The tithing in the modern church was never applied that way in the Scriptures, not even in the OT

Genesis 14:18-20
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 28:20-22
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

These are 2 accounts of people tithing or vowing to tithe outside of produce in the OT. They tithed of all or at least vowed to. Presumably this idea of tithing was passed
down from Abraham. It was an act of worship and a demonstration of their gratefulness for Gods provision.

If you recommend it, you are setting a bar, and you are naturally creating a moral issue in the congregation, and those that should not be giving that much because Biblically should provide first for a needed parent or worse, their own, are going to need "an exception" by the leadership, which then will be received with "oh brother you just don't have that much faith" because again, it becomes a moral issue when you “recommend" it publicly.

Do you suggest I omit thise passages about tithing when I am reading the scripture as to not appear suggestive? Lol. Or should I just vehemently discourage people to not tithe when those scriptures are read? Maybe I should just preach against tithing.

False doctrines have negative consequences to the congregation and the saints. You guys won't see it because you benefit from it.

The Bible has much to say about being false accuser of the brethren or a reviler. I will let my left hand know what my right hand does because of the anonymity of this forum and you don’t know me personally. My financial contributions are larger then the amount that I receive for the pastorate where I serve. I do not teach about giving for personal gain. I have worked full time hard labor jobs for my family all of my adult life. I am blessed to give a tenth and more.

And yes, it is totally possible that God blesses those saints that give, and those that tithe, because God is merciful. But no, the leadership teaching such a doctrine and even "recommending" it is outside of the blueprint left to the church by God through the Apostles.

Is it that God is merciful or is it that God responds to faith?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Genesis 14:18-20
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 28:20-22
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

These are 2 accounts of people tithing or vowing to tithe outside of produce in the OT. They tithed of all or at least vowed to. Presumably this idea of tithing was passed
down from Abraham. It was an act of worship and a demonstration of their gratefulness for Gods provision.



Do you suggest I omit thise passages about tithing when I am reading the scripture as to not appear suggestive? Lol. Or should I just vehemently discourage people to not tithe when those scriptures are read? Maybe I should just preach against tithing.



The Bible has much to say about being false accuser of the brethren or a reviler. I will let my left hand know what my right hand does because of the anonymity of this forum and you don’t know me personally. My financial contributions are larger then the amount that I receive for the pastorate where I serve. I do not teach about giving for personal gain. I have worked full time hard labor jobs for my family all of my adult life. I am blessed to give a tenth and more.



Is it that God is merciful or is it that God responds to faith?

Brother, just search in this forum, we have shown multiple times this is false doctrine. In this thread itself, I shown it is a post-apostolic doctrine. What else you need?