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Old 06-24-2021, 08:05 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Right, Wrong, or No good?

Nicodemus asked me a question. How do I know if something is wrong that is not explicitly called out in the Bible?

I said this:

Apostles applying the commandment directly, for example:


``Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ``Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: ``that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.'''' - Ephesians 6:1-3 NKJV


Apostles applying the underlying principle, for example:

``Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?'' - 2 Corinthians 6:14-15 NKJV

The context of that passage is holiness. Compare with this commandment:

``Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the LORD will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly.'' - Deuteronomy 7:3-4 NKJV

That commandment is not directly applicable to us, but the underlying principle of holiness is. If the direct application of a commandment ends in cultural absurdity, it is a good indication that it is not directly applicable. For example, there was that commandment about marrying only people from Israel. It would be absurd to interpret the commandment directly, however Paul did use the underlying principle to find God's will regarding holiness when marrying.

Another example of underlying principle applied by the apostles. Notice how Paul unearths the underlying principle:


``Do I say these things as a [mere] man? Or does not the law say the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, ``You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.'' Is it oxen God is concerned about? Or does He say [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown spiritual things for you, [is it] a great thing if we reap your material things? If others are partakers of [this] right over you, [are] we not even more? Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ.'' - 1 Corinthians 9:8-12 NKJV

It refers to this commandment:


``You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out [the grain].'' - Deuteronomy 25:4 NKJV


Apostles using examples (which you could find commandments as well):

Many O.T. examples show us the righteousness of God punishing iniquity on one side, and rewarding obedient faith, repentance, and righteousness on the other side.


``Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as [were] some of them. As it is written, ``The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.'' Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.'' - 1 Corinthians 10:6-11 NKJV

The Apostles also used the good examples from godly people.

``Wives, likewise, [be] submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct [accompanied] by fear. Do not let your adornment be [merely] outward--arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on [fine] apparel-- rather [let it be] the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible [beauty] of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.'' - 1 Peter 3:1-6 NKJV

Or the bad examples from ungodly ones.

``They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the [son] of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;'' - 2 Peter 2:15 NKJV

They also applied the Genesis Narrative to teach the will of God:

This is an example of Jesus using the Genesis creation narrative to draw a conclusion of what the perfect will of God is.

``The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, ``Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for [just] any reason?'' And He answered and said to them, ``Have you not read that He who made [them] at the beginning `made them male and female,' and said, `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.'' They said to Him, ``Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?'' He said to them, ``Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.'''' - Matthew 19:3-9 NKJV

There are more examples of the use of the Genesis narrative to determine the will of God or determine what is normal or natural. For example: Romans 1:26-27, 1 Timothy 2:11-14, 1 Corinthians 11:14-15.



In conclusion

The foundation is in the fact that the Scriptures reveals the person of God, so you should be able to find God's will in it.

Things are right or wrong or no good. "No good" meaning that it is not necessarily wrong but it is the reflection that something is wrong in the heart, or it can tempt you to get your heart wrong, or it is not the perfect will of God.
For example, polygamy, which is not explicitly called out in the Bible but because the Genesis narrative of God creating one man and one woman, you can see what God's ideal desire is. You can also see the general tendency to cause issues in later narrative, and finally, Paul making it an issue if you are looking to be an bishop.

Another 'no good' is wine or any substance that has the potential of blurring your good judgment to discern between good and evil (Leviticus 10:1-11).

Is it right, wrong, no good?

Probably not exhaustive but a good start:

* Look for a Precept. Is it applicable? (No explicitly discontinued, no cultural absurdity if try to apply it)
* Look for a Principle that can be applicable behind a Precept.
* Look for narrative that shows God's will
* Look for teachings of wisdom, or examples that warn you against it, or exhort you to do the opposite.

Another case is when something may not be necessarily bad (e.g. walking down a certain street), but it is an occasion for you to sin, then you need to stay away from it (see teachings of Jesus using the hyperbole of cutting your hand off or plucking your eye out).

What usually happens when something is totally new to you, is that the Spirit of God is already making you feel that something is wrong, or keeps bringing a scripture to your mind. Also, if you are mature and you know God well, your intuition will warn you that something ain't good in that. Then, because the Spirit is also the author of the Scriptures, you should be able to find a case against it in the Scriptures, and even teach it later to others.




What you got?

Last edited by coksiw; 06-24-2021 at 09:43 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2021, 10:30 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

Very good!

Explicit command, approved example, and necessary inference. Those are how we discover and apply Scripture to our current situations.
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Old 06-24-2021, 11:08 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Very good!

Explicit command, approved example, and necessary inference. Those are how we discover and apply Scripture to our current situations.
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Old 06-26-2021, 05:19 AM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

Where would owning a slave fall into these categories?
Right, wrong, no good?
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Old 06-26-2021, 08:30 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
Where would owning a slave fall into these categories?
Right, wrong, no good?
Lol. Did you read all I posted?
Some precepts are obviously not applicable. Things like explicit covenant discontinuity, or cultural absurdity is a clue that it is not.
Your goal here is not to approach the Old Testament to find reasons to throw everything away because you want to make a point against it all, but to do like the Apostles did, and see the righteousness and holiness of God in it and the expectations for our lives.

By the way, specifically of slavery, could you find me a command saying something like “thou shalt own (or take) slaves”? All I find are regulations if you own or planning to own or even planning to sell yourself or relative to pay a debt.
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Old 06-26-2021, 06:10 PM
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

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Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
Where would owning a slave fall into these categories?
Right, wrong, no good?
What's your answer? How readest thou?
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Old 06-26-2021, 06:45 PM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
What's your answer? How readest thou?
Bible is silent on it. For me, I don’t think it falls into any of the 3 categories.

I believe there are some things that the Bible is silent on.

One other thing, coskwi said “wine falls into no good category”..I wholeheartedly disagree ��
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Last edited by TGBTG; 06-26-2021 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 06-26-2021, 07:53 PM
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
Bible is silent on it. For me, I don’t think it falls into any of the 3 categories.

I believe there are some things that the Bible is silent on.

One other thing, coskwi said “wine falls into no good category”..I wholeheartedly disagree ��
Hmm. I would say slavery - as used in and defined by Scripture - is not condemned or prohibited, so it's not in the "wrong" category. It is regulated, so is allowable. Obviously, it is not preferable. Paul sums it up:

1 Corinthians 7:21-23 KJV
Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. [22] For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. [23] Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

It appears that such servanthood was, like divorce, a divinely instituted measure to address certain evils and maintain regulatory control over the situation. Freedom is obviously to be preferred, of course, but slavery per se was to be regulated by God IF it was to exist at all.
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2021, 06:31 AM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Hmm. I would say slavery - as used in and defined by Scripture - is not condemned or prohibited, so it's not in the "wrong" category. It is regulated, so is allowable. Obviously, it is not preferable. Paul sums it up:

1 Corinthians 7:21-23 KJV
Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. [22] For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. [23] Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

It appears that such servanthood was, like divorce, a divinely instituted measure to address certain evils and maintain regulatory control over the situation. Freedom is obviously to be preferred, of course, but slavery per se was to be regulated by God IF it was to exist at all.
Yeah, the treatment of slaves is addressed in scriptures. Like you said, it is allowable.
The idea that owning slaves is wrong is a humanistic teaching not a Biblical one. One humanism teaching comes in, and then another, well, we get what we have in the churches today…
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Old 06-27-2021, 08:57 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Right, Wrong, or No good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
Yeah, the treatment of slaves is addressed in scriptures. Like you said, it is allowable.
The idea that owning slaves is wrong is a humanistic teaching not a Biblical one. One humanism teaching comes in, and then another, well, we get what we have in the churches today…
in addition to their treatment, I think there is the issue of taking them by force as result of winning a war.

I see it as divorce or polygamy, a less than ideal situation, that needed regulation.
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