Will drinking beer send you to hell?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

That was a personal decision you admirably made with great risk under strong conviction my friend.


Amazing testimony.


Far cry from that and establishing a doctrine that disallows it for anyone.


Ive met people in intractable pain...they describe it as being set on fire 24/7.


Would you deny them painkillers?


Again...Im not a pill head by ANY stretch of the imagination and Ive been offered so many pills from passengers I know are so poor but so grateful that they have offered me some...Ive always thanked them for their kindness and refused.


Now if wifes fibromyalgia had a major spike and things were getting dire and someone trusted offered something we were sure of and familiar with? Of course Id accept! Id look at that as an answer to prayer and give thanks to God for it!


Thing is that we can't even do that because my wife has an allergy to pain meds so its whole lot of prayer, stress management and getting as healthy as we can to be on the best footing to deal with it when it comes.


To us its a mindset of know what you are taking, do your research, say no if the risks are unacceptable even you have to tough it out.


Thats a decision we have made for ourselves though and honestly if we had been under someones thumb that forbade the use we would have missed out on Gods leading in a way that met us at our needs instead of what someone else decided for us.

Totally agree. I believe in a personal relationship with Jesus. As a Pastor I may be in authority of the office, but like I tell them, its just you and Jesus.

[Nicodemus1968]

Well, I have to say I saw something with this discussion yesterday that provoked my thoughts. So, I have to really look at this discussion of wine verse grape juice. I could’ve been wrong all these years....

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Well, I have to say I saw something with this discussion yesterday that provoked my thoughts. So, I have to really look at this discussion of wine verse grape juice. I could’ve been wrong all these years....

What did you see

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Sit down sonny and let ole pawpaw Jediwill83 teach ya some science!


Ya ever see birds eat overly ripe fruit on a tree and get drunk?


Thats because NATURAL YEAST GROWS ON THE SKIN OF THE FRUIT AND BEGINS TO FERMENT THE SUGARS AND POOPS OUT ALCOHOL!


Thats right folks...alcohol or ETOH is created when yeast either naturally or artificially induced converts sugar into alcohol and with wine or any other alcohol the natural fermentation process stops around 14 % because it becomes an inhospitable environment for the yeast around that range give or take a few points.


To get higher concentrations you have to distill the fluid so youre separating water content from the alcohol so it's a higher more potent concentration.


Look...lets just face whats going on here...this isnt about truth...this is about being afraid and not having the guts to challenge what man says because you've been lied to and told that if you disagree you're in rebellion.


Well...that may be true but answer me this...if the Word of God is not being rightly divided and preached instead in ignorance, who are we actually rebelling against here?


God or man?


Remember the words of Jesus,"IT IS WRITTEN! MAN CANNOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD."


What Word? What percentage of Word...half the Word? A quarter? NO! EVERY WORD! You cannot live on partial Words of God you have to live by them ALL and if God said something was blessed and sanctified it you don't have the right nor moral authority to change it no matter WHO the preacher is nor how much he reads his Bible or how humble he calls himself because when you lift up yourself and declare through abrigation*thats a word...look it up* that the evolved doctrines of man supercede the established Word of God that is FOREVER SETTLED IN HEAVEN you run the risk of exaulting YOUR throne over that of the most high...and thats already been done and you KNOW the result.


Again! How much Word? All of it! Whose word? GOD'S WORD NOT MANS.


STOP WRESTING SCRIPTURE THAT GOD ALREADY SETTLED!


Welches PASTURIZED the grape juice and cooked it to kill the natually occurring yeast that would have turned it into alcohol.


Go look up when pasturizarion was invented and do some math on the differences in dates....Ill give you a hint...your gonna have to take off your socks to count that high and then you will have your answer on if they had "grape juice"


Man that fruit is already turning alcoholic on the vine.

Unfermented grape juice is technically leavened, and thus not suitable for passover. Fermented grape juice (wine) is no longer leavened, the wine is technically unleavened because it cannot ferment any more, the yeast has been used up.

I do not know if pasteurized grape juice would qualify as leavened, or unleavened. It cannot ferment because the yeast is dead, but the yeast hasn't been "used up". Interesting rabbinical-style debate.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Well, I have to say I saw something with this discussion yesterday that provoked my thoughts. So, I have to really look at this discussion of wine verse grape juice. I could’ve been wrong all these years....

What did you see?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What did you see?

This is the verse that got me startled.

Matthew 11:18-19 KJVS
[18] For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. [19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

What’s the difference between John and Jesus?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

This is the verse that got me startled.

Matthew 11:18-19 KJVS
[18] For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. [19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

What’s the difference between John and Jesus?

Jesus is the messiah?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

This is the verse that got me startled.

Matthew 11:18-19 KJVS
[18] For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. [19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

What’s the difference between John and Jesus?

You want to be a little more specific?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You want to be a little more specific?

Other than the verse being an excellent illustration of how when people want to dislike you they WILL find a reason...


John was a Nazarite from his mothers womb correct?


So no drinking was the stipulation...not sure about the uncut hair though...


John was an outcast because the jews would not accept any holiness outside the established law which requires wine consumption.




Jesus was under no such restriction.



The vow forbade him...set him apart...honestly now that I think about it with his calling and the culture he was from it would have been nigh impossible to keep his vow and remain in polite jewish society.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You want to be a little more specific?

Sorry.

As we all know there were different types of wine. You can search it for yourself. There was wine that had higher levels of alcohol, and there was wine that was considered “sweet” that had little to none alcohol in it. Ive listened to both arguments, but the fact remains it was fermented in some way.

My family comes from Italy, my cousin recently went and told me that in the place she was, wine was free served with the meal and water was to purchase. Now, the wine they gave the guests had little to no fermentation to it, but none the less it was there. Thats there culture, and thats one thing we have to understand or I have to understand. Today and in the time of Jesus there culture was not my culture. To go to someone’s house and refuse to eat or drink what they put in front of you was considered an offense.

When Jesus made the statement comparing the accusations they made against him. He said the son of man came eating and drinking. What’s the big deal with eating or drinking? Dealing with the drinking part, if it was just water, then there would be no reason to be called a winebibber. But as Jesus ate at sinners home and they gave him to eat and drink, he ate what was put in front of him, otherwise he would’ve been an offense to those he was reaching for.

I do believe Jesus drank wine, now we do not know the level of the fermentation that was in that wine. But like the evangelist said, Keifer has alcohol in it, NyQuil has alcohol in it.

1 Corinthians 10:23 KJVS
[23] All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.