Will drinking beer send you to hell?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Welch's grape juice first came about in 1869 when the American physician and dentist, Thomas Bramwell Welch, invented a method of pasteurizing grape juice to halt the fermentation process, preventing it from turning into wine. The result was non-alcoholic and more suitable for church services. Then, it caught on with the temperance movement crowd — long before Prohibition took effect.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...ice-navy-drink

Your saying they didn’t have grape juice back then? Not every beverage was alcoholic.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I have never claimed that folks using wine for communion were lost. Communion is typically a very limited amount. I also do not condemn the use of medicines that may have limited alcohol content in them. What I do believe is a dangerous practice, if not sinful in and of itself, is social or recreational consumption of alcohol.

There is a huge difference between a communion glass with wine in it in a church service and a glass of wine with your evening dinner, that may turn to 2, 3.....

You said intoxication begins with the first drink. So one drink of wine = intoxication. You pointed out no drunkard will be saved. You said anyone who drinks wine doesn't value their salvation.

The conclusions of your statements are obvious, brother. Where is Scriptural exception for communion?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Your saying they didn’t have grape juice back then? Not every beverage was alcoholic.

Sit down sonny and let ole pawpaw Jediwill83 teach ya some science!


Ya ever see birds eat overly ripe fruit on a tree and get drunk?


Thats because NATURAL YEAST GROWS ON THE SKIN OF THE FRUIT AND BEGINS TO FERMENT THE SUGARS AND POOPS OUT ALCOHOL!


Thats right folks...alcohol or ETOH is created when yeast either naturally or artificially induced converts sugar into alcohol and with wine or any other alcohol the natural fermentation process stops around 14 % because it becomes an inhospitable environment for the yeast around that range give or take a few points.


To get higher concentrations you have to distill the fluid so youre separating water content from the alcohol so it's a higher more potent concentration.


Look...lets just face whats going on here...this isnt about truth...this is about being afraid and not having the guts to challenge what man says because you've been lied to and told that if you disagree you're in rebellion.


Well...that may be true but answer me this...if the Word of God is not being rightly divided and preached instead in ignorance, who are we actually rebelling against here?


God or man?


Remember the words of Jesus,"IT IS WRITTEN! MAN CANNOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD."


What Word? What percentage of Word...half the Word? A quarter? NO! EVERY WORD! You cannot live on partial Words of God you have to live by them ALL and if God said something was blessed and sanctified it you don't have the right nor moral authority to change it no matter WHO the preacher is nor how much he reads his Bible or how humble he calls himself because when you lift up yourself and declare through abrigation*thats a word...look it up* that the evolved doctrines of man supercede the established Word of God that is FOREVER SETTLED IN HEAVEN you run the risk of exaulting YOUR throne over that of the most high...and thats already been done and you KNOW the result.


Again! How much Word? All of it! Whose word? GOD'S WORD NOT MANS.


STOP WRESTING SCRIPTURE THAT GOD ALREADY SETTLED!


Welches PASTURIZED the grape juice and cooked it to kill the natually occurring yeast that would have turned it into alcohol.


Go look up when pasturizarion was invented and do some math on the differences in dates....Ill give you a hint...your gonna have to take off your socks to count that high and then you will have your answer on if they had "grape juice"


Man that fruit is already turning alcoholic on the vine.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You said intoxication begins with the first drink. So one drink of wine = intoxication. You pointed out no drunkard will be saved. You said anyone who drinks wine doesn't value their salvation.

The conclusions of your statements are obvious, brother. Where is Scriptural exception for communion?

What about prescribed pharmaceuticals that cause worse problems than alcohol and cause permanent altered mental and emotional statues?


Thatd be a sin too right?


All the side effects and complications with medical malpractice being the third largest cause of death I don't see to many church folk shutting down hospitals.


God made wine...He created the process by which it is created...man made pharmaceuticals but yet youd discard the creation of God for the creation of man?


Im not saying "you" as meaning you personally Esaias....just as a general rebuttal of the idea of alcohol being automatically verboten.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

What about prescribed pharmaceuticals that cause worse problems than alcohol and cause permanent altered mental and emotional statues?


Thatd be a sin too right?


All the side effects and complications with medical malpractice being the third largest cause of death I don't see to many church folk shutting down hospitals.


God made wine...He created the process by which it is created...man made pharmaceuticals but yet youd discard the creation of God for the creation of man?


Im not saying "you" as meaning you personally Esaias....just as a general rebuttal of the idea of alcohol being automatically verboten.

I believe those that claim to be saved in the way of Acts 2:38 should not be taking those pharmaceuticals. I guess to some crowds they would perfectly fine, as long as its not done in excess.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I believe those that claim to be saved in the way of Acts 2:38 should not be taking those pharmaceuticals. I guess to some crowds they would perfectly fine, as long as its not done in excess.

What about painkillers? So you don’t even take an aspirin? If you had a elderly church member having issues with pain, would you instruct them to bite the bullet? To forgo any medication which would dull or remove the pain?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What about painkillers? So you don’t even take an aspirin? If you had a elderly church member having issues with pain, would you instruct them to bite the bullet? To forgo any medication which would dull or remove the pain?

Nope...if mawmaw dont have faith for her healing thats on her. :-/....kinda like the guy who crossed the road to look at the beaten robbed man but continued on his way without assisting....hey didnt that Samaritan guy use the medication of his day? Even wine? If I had wine back in that day and ran across someone beat that bad the FIRST thing Id do if he was conscious would be to say "Here...drink this...itll help with the pain." And then while I got my hands dirty and bloody binding his wounds and stabilizing him Id be praying all the while.


Since when has pain relief become a vice?


Holy masochism batman.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What about painkillers? So you don’t even take an aspirin? If you had a elderly church member having issues with pain, would you instruct them to bite the bullet? To forgo any medication which would dull or remove the pain?

Aspirin or ibuprofens I don’t see a problem with. He was asking about pharmaceuticals that alter your mental or emotional status. I have never heard of aspirin or Ibuprofen doing such a thing.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Nope...if mawmaw dont have faith for her healing thats on her. :-/....kinda like the guy who crossed the road to look at the beaten robbed man but continued on his way without assisting....hey didnt that Samaritan guy use the medication of his day? Even wine? If I had wine back in that day and ran across someone beat that bad the FIRST thing Id do if he was conscious would be to say "Here...drink this...itll help with the pain." And then while I got my hands dirty and bloody binding his wounds and stabilizing him Id be praying all the while.


Since when has pain relief become a vice?


Holy masochism batman.

Easy killer. I was on medication for many years of my life growing up. I have had heart surgeries, spent countless hours at the hospital because my heart was enlarged 3 times more than that of a human being. I was placed on medication for the rest of my life. When I came to God, I moved from my family and no longer was given support for my medication, back in 2002 costed around $350 a month. Because of my situation I dealt with a spirit of fear. I know the oppression from pharmaceuticals, I understand the ties to the spirit realm those drugs have on a soul. Yet, I still remember tossing the remainder of the pills into a watery curb in the upper peninsula of Michigan. That was 18 years ago, and this is what I told the Lord, either you heal me, or I’m going to die but at that point of my life I was ready.


Since when has pain relief become a vice?

It can be a vice. It was a vice over me for many years.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Easy killer. I was on medication for many years of my life growing up. I have had heart surgeries, spent countless hours at the hospital because my heart was enlarged 3 times more than that of a human being. I was placed on medication for the rest of my life. When I came to God, I moved from my family and no longer was given support for my medication, back in 2002 costed around $350 a month. Because of my situation I dealt with a spirit of fear. I know the oppression from pharmaceuticals, I understand the ties to the spirit realm those drugs have on a soul. Yet, I still remember tossing the remainder of the pills into a watery curb in the upper peninsula of Michigan. That was 18 years ago, and this is what I told the Lord, either you heal me, or I’m going to die but at that point of my life I was ready.


Since when has pain relief become a vice?

It can be a vice. It was a vice over me for many years.

That was a personal decision you admirably made with great risk under strong conviction my friend.


Amazing testimony.


Far cry from that and establishing a doctrine that disallows it for anyone.


Ive met people in intractable pain...they describe it as being set on fire 24/7.


Would you deny them painkillers?


Again...Im not a pill head by ANY stretch of the imagination and Ive been offered so many pills from passengers I know are so poor but so grateful that they have offered me some...Ive always thanked them for their kindness and refused.


Now if wifes fibromyalgia had a major spike and things were getting dire and someone trusted offered something we were sure of and familiar with? Of course Id accept! Id look at that as an answer to prayer and give thanks to God for it!


Thing is that we can't even do that because my wife has an allergy to pain meds so its whole lot of prayer, stress management and getting as healthy as we can to be on the best footing to deal with it when it comes.


To us its a mindset of know what you are taking, do your research, say no if the risks are unacceptable even you have to tough it out.


Thats a decision we have made for ourselves though and honestly if we had been under someones thumb that forbade the use we would have missed out on Gods leading in a way that met us at our needs instead of what someone else decided for us.