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Originally Posted by TakingDominion
So you're advocating for no full time ministry without them working a second job?
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It is what Paul lived and advocated and taught the elders in Ephesus to do.
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What if a church can very easily afford their pastor to not have to work another job?
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Spend it elsewhere, like helping the poor and needy, the homeless, local kids who can't afford school supplies, paying someone's rent, or helping someone acquire a vehicle. Start in the church, in the household of God, then move on from there.
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Do you think that pastor should have a secular job?
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Absolutely. Jesus contrasted Himself as the Good Shepherd from hirelings in
John 10. Hirelings are wage earners. Jesus made it clear that those who earn a wage while looking after the Shepherd's sheep will run when the wolves come. Ever hear the saying "keeping the wolves at bay"? It's related to finances. What happens to many pastors who are struggling financially or the church is struggling financially? How many want to, or at least think about bailing out of their calling? How many start hammering the church for $$$?
It's a hireling mentality.
Simon Peter said elders should not take upon themselves the role of overseer by constraint or for filthy lucre's sake (
1 Peter 5:2). What is filthy lucre? Ill-gotten gains received unethically or improperly, from either dishonest, of dishonorable sources. One form of this is taking a regular wage from the church.
Paul made it clear what he thought of when he thought of the idea of being paid to preach. He called it peddling God's Word (
2 Corinthians 2:7). He refused to be financially renumerated for his ministry. So, I think you can connect the dots and see that shepherding God's sheep, by definition has to be a wage-free labor of love, or else it's filthy lucre/peddling the Word of God.
Add to that his instruction to Timothy to be content with offerings of food and clothing makes it pretty clear Paul didn't want his team receiving money as gifts.
Paul only received financial assistance after he was placed under house arrest in Rome, and could not work, because of his chain, and couldn't pay for his rent. So, Epaphroditus worked himself near to death to keep Paul in that rented house and out of a Roman jail, and when the Philippians heard about it, they were sorry and decided to send Paul a monetary offering. But at the end of the letter, Paul makes it clear it wasn't the money he was after, he knew how to abound and how to be abased, and could, therefore, withstand a dungeon if that is what it was going to take for God's glory to be revealed. So, Paul knew he could do all things through Christ which strengthened him. Rather, then, he appreciated the financial donation because it was going to be blessed by God on their behalf for their own sakes. When the Philippians heard what had happened to Paul, they abandoned him and his ministry. The letter is very clear that Paul took pains to convince them that what had happened to him was the will of God, even letting them know he was winning souls among Caesar's household. It's why the letter was written not just to the saints, but more specifically to the bishops and deacons, that is, the overseers who make the crucial decisions and the deacons who handle the church's finances and giving.
We see, then, that Epaphroditus was the key when he came to Philippi and told them what was going on. His visit changed their minds, particularly the minds of the bishops and deacons, who abandoned their former assistance to their founding apostle.
So, if you re-read Philippians (without stopping for chapter breaks and in paragraph form without verses helps here) again in this light, and you will see why the only reason Paul took money was for what I just wrote above. It's obvious once you know to look for these things.
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Personally, I want my pastor to focus on teaching, preaching and building the church.
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He can't do that working a secular job? A minister of the Gospel is a minister 100% of the time, everywhere he goes, not just in a church setting. Most of the successful soul-winners I know have the most success through their secular work. What a great way to focus on teaching, preaching, and building the church, by having a captive audience to win to the Lord.
While at university, I taught my boss a Bible study on the Gospel using her computer workstation during a shift using biblegateway.com and she came to church that night and was baptized and received the Holy Spirit.
Currently, I work for Walmart and have had so many opportunities to pray for and be a blessing and witness. I baptized a coworker in the name of the Lord Jesus last October who had received the Holy Spirit back as a teen in the 70's with the Jesus People, have had a college student who attended my alma mater receive a revelation of
Acts 2:38 because of what I've been teaching, been used by God to work a miracle of healing for a backslider I used to teach in Sunday school when she was a kid, who is facing a severely complicated pregnancy. The list goes on to the glory of God. As far as work goes, as far as I am concerned, I tend as a shepherd the lost sheep who work for and/or shop at, my store. And God blesses. I took a new position a year ago, only to find out then that I became the boss of someone who received the Holy Spirit at my former church who told me my brother baptized in her in the name of Jesus (but she has fallen away since then). The connections and possibilities are endless, because of my secular work, which I treat as SACRED.
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Also, how would a traveling evangelist keep secular employment?
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An itinerant prophet is not a pastor, right? The needs are different. The travelling preacher can receive donations of assistance, like food and clothing as needed, and can be sent on his way to the next place through the help of a local church, as indicated by the Holy Scriptures.
Not as a wage, but as basic coverage and reimbursement of expenses.
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Saying Paul worked and therefore preachers today should work doesn't make sense to me.
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Paul said that, as an APOSTLE men like him and Barnabas had the right, if they elected to make use of it, to forebear working for the sake of prayer and the Word (
1 Corinthians 9:1-6). He never indicated that anyone other than an apostle had that right. So, and unless someone is an apostle, and that's verified Biblically, no one has the right to forebear working.
But even if a person is an apostle, and has the right to forebear, we still must consider Paul's example as the best path to follow, for, as he himself wrote, that the Gospel be not hindered. Paul had exceptional wisdom and insight from the Lord. He tried to make it plain what it meant to be an apostle. It is the most difficult ministry to live out, especially as traveling church planters (for example, see
1 Corinthians 4). He didn't want people coveting the role due to the perks.
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Paul also rode camels, wore sandals and ate hummus. I'm glad we don't have to do any of those today and it's because of the blessings of God.
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Methods of travel, footwear, and dietary choices are nowhere near in the same category as understanding and applying the correct principles of the Holy Scriptures regarding financial remuneration for the ministry.
And yet, Paul, traveling by foot, or possibly by animal, and by ship, in his rugged sandals and eating mashed chickpeas and sesame seeds and olive oil did more than most are doing with vehicles, smartphones, internet, vast ministerial networks and fellowships and bank accounts at their disposal. So, go figure out how that works.
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