Why Sunday

[Esaias]

Again, regarding circumcision and the stranger:

Exodus 12:43-45,48-49 KJV
And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: [44] But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. [45] A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. [48] And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord , let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. [49] One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Strangers had to be circumcised in order to eat the passover. However, they were not required to be circumcised to keep Sabbath:

Exodus 20:10 KJV
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Or to bring an offering:

Leviticus 17:8-9 KJV
And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice, [9] And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the Lord ; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.

Numbers 15:13-16 KJV
All that are born of the country shall do these things after this manner, in offering an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord . [14] And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord ; as ye do, so he shall do. [15] One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you , an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are , so shall the stranger be before the Lord . [16] One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Or keep the Day of Atonement:

Leviticus 16:29-31 KJV
And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: [30] For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord . [31] It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

Or eat the tithes:

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 KJV
At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: [29] And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Strangers were subject to the laws of God:

Leviticus 24:15-16 KJV
And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. [16] And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord , he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord , shall be put to death.

Leviticus 24:22 KJV
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 25:35 KJV
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

Numbers 19:9-10 KJV
And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin. [10] And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.

They kept Pentecost:

Deuteronomy 16:10-11 KJV
And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the Lord thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the Lord thy God , according as the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: [11] And thou shalt rejoice before the Lord thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which the Lord thy God hath chosen to place his name there.

Tabernacles:

Deuteronomy 16:13-15 KJV
Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine: [14] And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates. [15] Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice.

The stranger was to hear and learn and obey the laws of God:

Deuteronomy 31:11-13 KJV
When all Israel is come to appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing. [12] Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the Lord your God, and observe to do all the words of this law: [13] And that their children, which have not known any thing , may hear, and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

So circumcision was a bar to eating the passover. Not much else.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I had been reading this thread sporadically, so went back and read through the whole thread.
Many of the posts written in favor of Sabbath keeping are beautifully inspiring and devotional.

The best argument in favor of Sabbath keeping is that you can't dismiss the 10 commandments as being "the old covenant" and therefore done away with.
They are as Bro Avery says "The Royal Law"

If love is the fulfillment of the Law, then Sabbath keeping with it's concern for sacred time set apart for loving God and resting with family, friends, animals, and community seems like an act of love.
It is sad that our society doesn't take time to slow down for Sabbath rest.

We are to love God and our neighbor. All the various instructions in the Bible are explanations of HOW we are to love God and our neighbor. Thus, love is the fulfilling of the law, because love does what the law said to do. "Love worketh no ill to his neighbor", meaning the one who actually loves their neighbour will do the things God said to do in regard to our neighbor. The same goes for loving God.

[Esaias]

It keeps getting repeated that "Sabbath is a shadow", as if that means it is to be dispensed with.

But is it?

Hebrews 8:4-5 KJV
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

The old covenant Levitical rites and priesthood were part of service to the shadow of heavenly things. That shadow is here specified to be the Tabernacle (and thus the temple, which was a more permanent phase of the tabernacle).

Hebrews 10:1-3 KJV
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Again, the law is said to have the shadow of good things to come. What law? The law of sacrifice and Levitical rites, the law of the Tabernacle (see ch 9 for more info). To leap from this to the 4th commandment is passe because it is a shadow requires an assumption, that whatever was in the law was a shadow. But that assumption would actually do away with all moral law whatsiever. So obviously that is not what Paul is discussing.

Colossians 2:16-17 KJV
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days : [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

This is recognised by exegetes as one of the hardest passages to translate, linguistically speaking. There are two options here.

1. The judging or criticism of the Colossian brethren by outsiders regarding the Colossians' eating, drinking, keeping holy day, new moons, and sabbath days. That criticism of liturgical practices was a shadow of things to come. Historically, this is dead on accurate. The rise of the apostasy which culminated in the creation of various sects (heresies) including catholicism included a vehement critique or judging and excommunication of Christians who practiced the original apostolic faith. The Lord's Supper was forbidden and replaced with a Mithraic "eucharist Mass", new holy days created, Sunday, etc etc.

2. Eating, drinking, holy day, new moons, and sabbath days are the shadow. If sabbath days are part of the shadow, so is eating and drinking. Eating does NOT refer to "kosher food law" of the old testament, that would be "food". But the Greek word is literally eatING. And it includdes drinking. There are no Mosaic stipulations about drinking except for Nazarites. So what is this eating and drinking? The Lord's Supper. The agape feast. The breaking of bread (communal fellowship meals).

In this case the Lord's Supper and the liturgical calendar practiced by the Christians are part of a shadow of coming things. We know the Lord's Supper is such (as long as ye eat this bread and drink this cup ye do show the Lord's death UNTIL HE COMES). So then what is being said is apostolic Christian worship is a foretaste or shadow of things to come.

The Revelation details numerous acts of worship in the heavenly sanctuary which result in effects on earth according to the Divine Plan. Thus, worship follows a pattern or template that signifies the Divine Plan (prophecy). Prophecy and the outworking in earth of God's Plan is the enacting of WORSHIP AS IT OCCURS IN HEAVEN. The heavenly worship is a drama which depicts God's Plan for His creation. So when Christians worship (Biblically, that is) they are literally acting out the Divine prophetic plan of God in a representative fashion.

Either way you look at it, no indication arises that Sabbath keeping is obsolete.

[Esaias]

What is "morality"? What is "moral law"?

Morality is doing what you ought to do.

Moral law is the law that governs moral agents. It is the obligations they have. It is "what people ought to do."

If people ought to keep the Sabbath, it is moral law. Period. It's oughtness is what makes it moral.

Morality or moral character is the condition of the person in regard to their fulfilling or failing to fulfill their duty, what they ought to do. It is immoral to disobey God because obedience to God consists in doing what God wants us to do. What God wants us to do is called "moral law", a code of conduct.

Saying that the Sabbath contains no spiritual benefit is in my opinion an indication of a very low regard for something God blessed, hallowed, sanctified, and gave to man as a gift.

God wants to His people call the Sabbath a delight, and offers a promise:

Isaiah 58:13-14 KJV
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord , honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: [14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord ; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it .

If a person doesn't have that attitude towards the things of God, well, I guess they just don't. I don't understand why a Christian wouldn't think of the Sabbath as a delight, and honourable, that is, a REALLY GOOD THING.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I haven't found the verse that says "the Holy Ghost is our rest"?

God threatened Judah saying He would speak to them via foreign conquest (stammering lips and another tongue) yet they would not listen. His message was was about rest, this is the rest, etc. Jeremiah however explained what that rest was:

Jeremiah 6:16 KJV
Thus saith the Lord , Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein .

Rest for the soul is found in "the old paths wherein is the good way". Rest is cessation of certain activities. The number one rest that people need is a cessation from fighting God. That is why rest and peace are so closely connected. It is an absence of war or enmity between man and God.

Now don't get me wrong, there can be no genuine rest apart from or outside of the Holy Ghost. But why is that? It is not because of some catharsis or emotional release, but because the Spirit brings freedom from the bondage of sin (disobedience).

As for the Sabbath day itself, God told Israel why He commanded it:

Exodus 31:15-17 KJV
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord : whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. [17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

The reason given is "for in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed." Sabbath keeping was a sign between them and God, it identified their God as the Creator of all things and thus the one and only true God. It was a banner if you will saying who their God was and to whom they belonged.

Some will say "Well then, it was a sign for those people, but not for me." However, the church IS ISRAEL. Not a new replacement Israel, but the same Israel of old, under a new covenant through Messiah. Moreover, this sign given to Israel is based on His work (and rest) as Creator of the universe, and since all mankind has one Creator, all should revere and honour Him. It was a sign limited to Israel by the fact only Israel worshipped the One God Creator and Father of all.

God expected the nations to learn from Israel and follow His ways:

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 KJV
Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the Lord my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. [6] Keep therefore and do them ; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. [7] For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for ? [8] And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

He said it would come to pass:

Isaiah 2:2-5 KJV
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. [3] And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord , to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. [4] And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. [5] O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord .

Jesus gave this commission to the church:

Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ephesians 3:7-11 KJV
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. [8] Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; [9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: [10] To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, [11] According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This includes the 4th commandment:

Isaiah 56:1-8 KJV
Thus saith the Lord , Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. [2] Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. [3] Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord , speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. [4] For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; [5] Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. [6] Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord , to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord , to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

I haven't found the verse that says "the Holy Ghost is our rest"?

With that in mind I haven’t found a verse that says, “the sabbath day is our rest.”

What do you believe Isaiah 28:11-12 is referring to?

Isaiah 28:11-12
[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. [12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.


Why would the Lord speak through the prophet and tell his people this is the rest, this is the refreshing? Stammering lips and another tongue will cause the weary to rest. Why or how are they weary, was it because they were working too hard, I dont believe so, and one may say, the word rest doesn’t mean the same, then why use that word of rest? Do you not believe this is prophetic of the Holy Ghost?

Matthew 11:28-30
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


If the sabbath was our rest, then why would Jesus need to bring rest?

You stated you have found no verse that states the Holy Ghost is our rest. I believe in 1 God not 2, and if Jesus is telling his disciples I will give you rest, then that means the Holy Ghost will give you rest. After this verse it goes into the story of Jesus and his disciples in the field on the sabbath.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It keeps getting repeated that "Sabbath is a shadow", as if that means it is to be dispensed with.

For the body, yes it is to be dispensed of.

But is it?

Hebrews 8:4-5 KJV
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

It is not saying that God honoured the temple's existence as His holy place after the atonement occurred by the cross, though. It is saying that if he were of the old order he would be on earth acting as priest, and not in heaven. And he pointed to the then-existing temple and active levitical priesthood, that was NO MORE IN EFFECT from God's perspective of what He was involved with.

The old covenant Levitical rites and priesthood were part of service to the shadow of heavenly things. That shadow is here specified to be the Tabernacle (and thus the temple, which was a more permanent phase of the tabernacle).

Hebrews 10:1-3 KJV
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Again, the law is said to have the shadow of good things to come. What law? The law of sacrifice and Levitical rites, the law of the Tabernacle (see ch 9 for more info). To leap from this to the 4th commandment is passe because it is a shadow requires an assumption, that whatever was in the law was a shadow. But that assumption would actually do away with all moral law whatsiever. So obviously that is not what Paul is discussing.

Paul made the connection of sabbath being a shadow as he did law being a shadow. And I've said ad nauseum that the ceremonies and carnal ordinances were the subject as Hebrews 9 says diverse washings and carnal ordinances were imposed UNTIL. Sabbath is included. It was an ordinance due to its seventh-day emphasis.

Colossians 2:16-17 KJV
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days : [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

This is recognised by exegetes as one of the hardest passages to translate, linguistically speaking. There are two options here.

1. The judging or criticism of the Colossian brethren by outsiders regarding the Colossians' eating, drinking, keeping holy day, new moons, and sabbath days. That criticism of liturgical practices was a shadow of things to come.

I'm still glad that you see that the BODY is not the church in that passage, by the way.

Historically, this is dead on accurate. The rise of the apostasy which culminated in the creation of various sects (heresies) including catholicism included a vehement critique or judging and excommunication of Christians who practiced the original apostolic faith. The Lord's Supper was forbidden and replaced with a Mithraic "eucharist Mass", new holy days created, Sunday, etc etc.

2. Eating, drinking, holy day, new moons, and sabbath days are the shadow. If sabbath days are part of the shadow, so is eating and drinking. Eating does NOT refer to "kosher food law" of the old testament, that would be "food". But the Greek word is literally eatING. And it includdes drinking. There are no Mosaic stipulations about drinking except for Nazarites. So what is this eating and drinking? The Lord's Supper. The agape feast. The breaking of bread (communal fellowship meals).

I disagree. It is the eating and drinking rituals associated with washings and ordinances noted in Hebrews 9 that were done away with when the old covenant "first tabernacle" was removed so that the New Covenant "second tabernacle" could be entered.

In this case the Lord's Supper and the liturgical calendar practiced by the Christians are part of a shadow of coming things. We know the Lord's Supper is such (as long as ye eat this bread and drink this cup ye do show the Lord's death UNTIL HE COMES). So then what is being said is apostolic Christian worship is a foretaste or shadow of things to come.

The Re

There is no calendar associated with the Lord's supper. The early church had no liturgy.

Revelation details numerous acts of worship in the heavenly sanctuary which result in effects on earth according to the Divine Plan.

Thay is exactly what liturgical churches claim about the Revelation. These visions are symbolic and there are not actual incense and so forth going on in heaven. The liturgy of the Law of Moses were shadows of non-liturgical simple old-fashioned prayers. Revelation 5 showed the high Priest Jesus entering the Holiest of Heaven itself, as Hebrews 9 explained. It was not actualities John saw. It used pictures of the Law, made them into visions for John to relate the spiritual realities that are described in the rest of the New Testament. Revelation is like the Old Covenant writings that use shadows, but include terms from the new covenant to tie the old together toward the new for us to understand.

Thus, worship follows a pattern or template that signifies the Divine Plan (prophecy).

Revelation does not at all show that. However, there is that which is in heaven that is patterned in the natural on earth during the old covenant. The body of the pattern is NOT what we read in Revelation, for that book uses the same shadowy imagery. Christ did not literally go as a lamb with multiple horns and eyes when He entered the holiest. That should explain the reality of the purpose of Revelation. The template is what we read about in the New Tesatment activities of the church. Heaven came to earth on the day of Pentecost.

Prophecy and the outworking in earth of God's Plan is the enacting of WORSHIP AS IT OCCURS IN HEAVEN. The heavenly worship is a drama which depicts God's Plan for His creation. So when Christians worship (Biblically, that is) they are literally acting out the Divine prophetic plan of God in a representative fashion.

Not in the sensed that you describe about Revelation. When we read Revelation, John saw imagery form the old testament, not movies of what was actually going on in heaven as per the visions. The 4 beasts and the 24 elders are the church in all its many facets of existence that the imagery represents, who were redeemed from all nations (hint hint). Rev 5:8-10.

Either way you look at it, no indication arises that Sabbath keeping is obsolete.

Reach as you might, sabbath is a shadow and the days of shadows are over.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What is "morality"? What is "moral law"?

Morality is doing what you ought to do.

Moral law is the law that governs moral agents. It is the obligations they have. It is "what people ought to do."

If people ought to keep the Sabbath, it is moral law. Period. It's oughtness is what makes it moral.

Morality or moral character is the condition of the person in regard to their fulfilling or failing to fulfill their duty, what they ought to do. It is immoral to disobey God because obedience to God consists in doing what God wants us to do. What God wants us to do is called "moral law", a code of conduct.

Saying that the Sabbath contains no spiritual benefit is in my opinion an indication of a very low regard for something God blessed, hallowed, sanctified, and gave to man as a gift.

God wants to His people call the Sabbath a delight, and offers a promise:

Isaiah 58:13-14 KJV
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord , honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: [14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord ; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it .

If a person doesn't have that attitude towards the things of God, well, I guess they just don't. I don't understand why a Christian wouldn't think of the Sabbath as a delight, and honourable, that is, a REALLY GOOD THING.

People were told that they ought to engage in diverse washings and carnal ordinances. It was moral for them to do that. People were told to construct a physical temple in Jerusalem. That was a moral thing to do as a result, because it's moral to bey anything God says. But what God says, so far as shadows are concerned, changes into speaking about the body of truths that casts those shadows.

It was moral to offer animals in sacrifice. But since covenants CHANGED, the moral thing to now do is move with the covenants and not attend a physical temple in Jerusalem, but be part of the New Jerusalem, the church. The moral thing to do is to not offer animals, but to recognize the sacrifice of Jesus as the body of those animal-sacrificial-= shadows

Try as you might, you cannot put sabbath in with morality when it was distinctly called a shadow when nothing moral was a shadow of anything. Show me where refusing to murder is a shadow!

If you grow a garden, do you let is rest every seven years and see God multiply the growth of the sixth year to last the seventh and eight afterward? Show me one farmer or gardener who does this and sees those results int he new covenant. Or are they shadows? Seventh day sabbath and seventh year sabbath are in the same book!

[mfblume]

Well, seems like you have a bunch of converts to sabbatarianism. I'd like to see testimonies of the claims of everyone who has come to agree with you posted here for us to read! Who will start cooking all their food on Friday for the sabbath from now on? Can I get a witness?

As for me and my house we keep the body, and not the shadow.

I say this not in mockery, for I really am interested in seeing people publicize this change of doctrine for them.

[Esaias]

Brother Blume asked: Getting what the natural tried to achieve, is what the Law of the Spirit of Life achieves in us! Why can't people see this?

We can see this. Here again:

Romans 8:2 KJV
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The law of the Spirit freed Paul from what? The law of sin (Sabbath breaking included) and death (penalty for breaking God's commandments). The Holy Ghost will set you free from your Sabbath breaking, brother.

Romans 8:3-4 KJV
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus died so we could STOP SINNING. The law (whether you understand that mean the old covenant, or the commands of God themselves) cannot cause you you to fulfill righteousness. It cannot produce obedience. It can only show us what obedience looks like, what disobedience looks like, and provide penalties for disobedience. It cannot make anyone love God and their neighbor. But Jesus can, through the power of the cross. His death works in us to become NEW people who lovingly obey our Father.

That includes the 4th commandment just as surely as it does the other ten.

Romans 8:5-8 KJV
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Those who are carnally minded, who walk according to the flesh, who mind the things of the flesh, are those who will not submit to the law of God. They are at odds with God, at odds with His commandments, His ways, His revealed will. They will not submit to His law, they can't. Because they are still bound by sin:

Romans 6:5-7 KJV
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him , that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

If you have been baptised into Christ's death, then by faith you have been freed from transgressing His commandments (sin is transgression of the law). We must reckon ourselves DEAD TO SIN, including Sabbath breaking:

Romans 6:11 KJV
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Dead to sin doesn't mean free to continue sinning:

Romans 6:12-18 KJV
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I haven't found the verse that says "the Holy Ghost is our rest"?

With that in mind I haven’t found a verse that says, “the sabbath day is our rest.”

What do you believe Isaiah 28:11-12 is referring to?

Isaiah 28:11-12
[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. [12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.


Why would the Lord speak through the prophet and tell his people this is the rest, this is the refreshing? Stammering lips and another tongue will cause the weary to rest. Why or how are they weary, was it because they were working too hard, I dont believe so, and one may say, the word rest doesn’t mean the same, then why use that word of rest? Do you not believe this is prophetic of the Holy Ghost?

Matthew 11:28-30
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


If the sabbath was our rest, then why would Jesus need to bring rest?

You stated you have found no verse that states the Holy Ghost is our rest. I believe in 1 God not 2, and if Jesus is telling his disciples I will give you rest, then that means the Holy Ghost will give you rest. After this verse it goes into the story of Jesus and his disciples in the field on the sabbath.

Well, I never said "the Sabbath day is our rest", so...


If the Holy Ghost gives us rest, then the rest is the ends and the Spirit is the means, which proves they are not the same exact thing.

Rest is peace with God, a condition of being conformed to the will of God, being like Jesus. We come to Jesus and He gives us rest. Meaning He reconciles us to God. Meaning we cease being at war with God through unbelief and disobedience.