We're the Temple

[Antipas]

Just love people. Share Christ with them. Allow God to deal with them and ultimately be their judge.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What do you think, Hometown Guy?

From a quick glance it sounds like a good explanation to me.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

From a quick glance it sounds like a good explanation to me.

So you agree God loves sinners.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So you agree God loves sinners.

Never once did I say God does not love sinners.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

explain how god love was shown in sodom after they would not repent. Also show me how god showed his love to the world after they would not get on the ark..

Sounds like you said God didn't love in these cases.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sounds like you said God didn't love in these cases.

After they would not repent... God’s love is conditional not unconditional.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

After they would not repent... God’s love is conditional not unconditional.

When Esaias gave his thoughts, he showed God loves people at the same time he hates. There was no indication the love aspect leaves. If he can love sinners aside from his hatred at the same time, then unconditional love doesn't have anything to do with seeing them being sent to hell. You seem to insist it must. Why can't there be unconditional love for those who go to hell? If a human can love their children who are murderers and go to prison.... And we being evil, do that, in reality, how much more God?

By the way, and this is for Esaias, the hyperbole aspect in hating family in order to follow Christ shows the idea of less love for family than Jesus. That's the purpose of the hyperbole.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

By the way, and this is for Esaias, the hyperbole aspect in hating family in order to follow Christ shows the idea of less love for family than Jesus. That's the purpose of the hyperbole.

I think "love less" misdirects the reader's thoughts, giving a possibly if not probably skewed understanding. Of course we are to love people less than we love God, but that is understood even with saying "love your children, wives" etc.

So when Jesus used "hate" in that instance He wasnt just saying "love them less", He was saying "Be willing and able to disfavour them if it comes to a choice between them and Me." I think His hyperbolic use of hate highlights an active disfavouring that is absent from "love less".

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

After they would not repent... God’s love is conditional not unconditional.

I think "love" is multi layered and includes the idea of favour, blessing, etc. Love is a big word, so in one sense His love is unconditional as far as our actions are concerned (We cannot and did not do anything on our part to motivate God sending His Son to die for our sins) and yet in another sense it IS conditional (His favour and blessing is only bestowed upon the righteous).

And by favour and blessing I mean the favour and blessings that are conditioned on our being His children.

The problem is a lot of people chant "unconditional love" and what they mean is "As I backslide I am still going to heaven" which is deadly heresy.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I think "love less" misdirects the reader's thoughts, giving a possibly if not probably skewed understanding. Of course we are to love people less than we love God, but that is understood even with saying "love your children, wives" etc.

So when Jesus used "hate" in that instance He wasnt just saying "love them less", He was saying "Be willing and able to disfavour them if it comes to a choice between them and Me." I think His hyperbolic use of hate highlights an active disfavouring that is absent from "love less".

I see that as more speculative than the simpler thought of contrast of putting God first