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View Poll Results: Did Jesus Come In 70ad?
Did the coming of Jesus including the resurrection of the dead occur in 70ad? 0 0%
The coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the dead is still future. 6 100.00%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 11-21-2018, 08:44 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

If anyone here believes like Preterist.org that the coming of Jesus, the resurrection of the dead, and the eternal judgement took place in 70 ad they could always just present a straightforward teaching about it right here in this thread.
Quote:
“Preterist” means past in fulfillment, and “Futurist” means future in fulfillment. Preterist basically means the opposite of Futurist. Futurists believe most end-time prophecies (especially the big three events — the Second Coming, Resurrection, and Judgment) are yet to be fulfilled. Preterists believe that most or all of Bible Prophecy (especially the big three events) has already been fulfilled in Christ and the on-going expansion of His Eternal Kingdom.
Or they could start a new thread.


Not just a verse or a thought followed by several pages of arguing over one word. But rather a concise and to the point statement of what you believe and why. Then we will know what it is you DO believe?

After all one doctrine should not have to be longer than entire books of the Bible to explain.
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  #52  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:01 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

Preterism explained

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  #53  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:23 AM
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

Preterism and the resurrection.

WAS CHRIST PHYSICALLY RESURRECTED?

YES! Absolutely, without a doubt. Since Christ's resurrection was physical, won't ours be? NO! Christ's actual resurrection was His going to Hades and coming back out. When he was resurrected from Hades, He was raised into his original body, which was transformed into His heavenly form. This was done as a SIGN to the apostles that he had done what He had promised. The resurrection of Jesus' body verified for His disciples, the resurrection of His soul. David had prophesied:

Psalms 16:10 (NKJV) For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

Peter preached that David looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of Christ:

Acts 2:31 (NKJV) "he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

These verses speak of both spiritual death (the soul in hades) and physical death (decay of the flesh). Jesus was resurrected from both.

The reason there are differences in the way we are raised and the way in which Christ was raised is because of those Biblically defined differences between Christ's body and ours. Differences such as:

Christ is the only one who is both fully God and fully Man -- God incarnate. (John 1:1-18). Christ is the only one who was virgin born, and, therefore, born without original sin. (Rom. 3:21-26; 5:12-21; 7:4-11; etc.). Christ is the only one who ever lived a sinless life. (Heb. 4:15). Christ is the only one promised that his flesh would not suffer decay. (Acts 2:27,31).

His human body was not subject to original sin, nor corruptible (i.e. He was "impeccable"), nor did He ever commit sin and become corrupted. Because of this, He could keep His selfsame body, whereas, we cannot.

Unless Jesus' body had been resurrected, His disciples would have had no assurance that His soul had been to Hades and had been resurrected. The physical resurrection of Christ was essential to verify the spiritual, to which it was tied. While the physical resurrection of our bodies would have no point, since we will not continue living on this planet, breathing earth's oxygen, and eating earth's food after we die physically.

WHAT HAPPENS TO US AT DEATH?

Since the resurrection is past, what happens to believers when they die? Their physical body goes back to dust from which it came:

Ecclesiastes 3:20 (NKJV) All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.

And their spirit is united to their spiritual body and goes to be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:35-38 (NKJV) But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?" 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, YOU DO NOT SOW THAT BODY THAT SHALL BE, but mere grain; perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But GOD GIVES IT A BODY as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

We get the same kind of body Christ has, but we do not get it the same way He got His, nor do we get our same physical body back like Christ did. We get a new spiritual body which arises out of the inner man. God gives us a spiritual body!

1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (NKJV) It is sown a natural body, it is RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

This affirms two different kinds of bodies. Our natural body dies, and we receive a spiritual body. Paul says, "IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY."

Those of us who have trusted Christ in the New Covenant age, have life and do not need to be resurrected.

John 11:25-26 (NKJV) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 "And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Jesus is saying, "He who believes in me shall live (spiritually), even if he dies (physically), and everyone who lives (physically), and believes in Me, shall never die (spiritually)."

Two categories of believers are discussed: those who would die before the resurrection and those who would not. For those who died under the Old Covenant, He was the Resurrection, but for those who lived into the days of the New Covenant, He is the Life.

Under the New Covenant, there is no death, spiritually speaking:

1 Corinthians 15:54-57 (NKJV) So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 21:4 (NKJV) "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; THERE SHALL BE NO MORE DEATH, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Where there is no death, there is no need of a resurrection. We have eternal life and can never die spiritually. Therefore, we don't need a resurrection. At death, we go immediately to heaven in our spiritual body.

The resurrection was a one time event in which the Old Testament saints were brought out of Hades and finally overcame death to be with the Lord. We have put on immortality and will put on our immortal body when we die physically. As believers, we live in the presence of God, and in physical death, we simply drop the flesh and dwell only in the spiritual realm.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyp...urrection.html

Last edited by Amanah; 11-21-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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  #54  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:31 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
If anyone here believes like Preterist.org that the coming of Jesus, the resurrection of the dead, and the eternal judgement took place in 70 ad they could always just present a straightforward teaching about it right here in this thread.


Or they could start a new thread.


Not just a verse or a thought followed by several pages of arguing over one word. But rather a concise and to the point statement of what you believe and why. Then we will know what it is you DO believe?

After all one doctrine should not have to be longer than entire books of the Bible to explain.
Mike, the "straightforward teaching starts with everything that Jesus came to do. Agreed? Wouldn't we have to be able to teach why He is the Christ to a
certain group who lived in a certain time in a certain geographical location?

Did Jesus come to His own? Who were His own? Those who were dead and in their graves PRIOR to Jesus' coming to Jerusalem as a child, born in Bethlehem how were those people saved?
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  #55  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:44 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Or they could start a new thread.
Its called the eschatology section. Which we (I think you posted a handful of times but found you didn't hold much of an audience then left) have a plethora of information concerning the resurrection by myself,Elder Micheal Blume, and Brother Wiltcher.

Mike,what was the salvation plan for Judeans and Israelites prior to the first advent of Christ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Not just a verse or a thought followed by several pages of arguing over one word.
Mike? You call arguing over one word, you coping out by saying you didn't know? That you didn't know why Paul even used the word instead of the Greek word for heaven and sky? That is arguing pages? You mad.

Mike, the verses meaning is predicated on that word. This is coming from Mike the Disciple who will burn up an entire thread on beards and one word for long in 1st Corinthians 11. He wants Preterist to do a tap dance on command but won't teach a good clear refutation using his own doctrine.

Mike, you can't disprove anything, if you don't have anything yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
But rather a concise and to the point statement of what you believe and why. Then we will know what it is you DO believe?
Good, let's start with what was the salvation message of the Judeans and Israelites prior to the first advent of Christ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
After all one doctrine should not have to be longer than entire books of the Bible to explain.
That's funny coming from a guy who can fill pages of a thread with explanations of One God. Shouldn't need the a huge explanation on how Jesus is God longer than the books of the Bible. Hypocrite.
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Last edited by Evang.Benincasa; 11-21-2018 at 09:46 AM.
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  #56  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:51 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
The resurrection was a one time event in which the Old Testament saints were brought out of Hades and finally overcame death to be with the Lord. We have put on immortality and will put on our immortal body when we die physically. As believers, we live in the presence of God, and in physical death, we simply drop the flesh and dwell only in the spiritual realm.
Now, Mike, what was the salvation plan for the Judeans and Israelites prior to the advent of Christ?

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  #57  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:01 AM
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

Also dragging poor old Hymenaeus down the street to prove he was an early Preterist is wrong. Because one, if what he teaching was about a physical resurrection then he could of told his opposition that he personally point to the resurrected. I believe that Hymenaeus was teaching that the resurrection of Jesus, and the many who walked into Jerusalem were what he claimed to be the resurrection which was past. Yet, there is more. Because everything within eschatology of Judeans and Israelites had to do with them and God. Gentiles are grafted in to their olive tree, not the other way around. It is all about Israel, and it must make sense to the first century believer, not Americans who think beards or no beards are important on any level. Why did Jesus come, who did He come to? Who were His people? The same as the prophetic prophesy of Daniel being about HIS PEOPLE. The resurrection in Daniel is about his people? Sleeping in the dust of the earth prior to any arrival of Christ. How did those guys have slavation? Did Jesus go to hell rattling keys and preaching a sermon about the Gospel? Anyone heard that? Preached to souls? While the Bible says as the tree falleth so shall it be found? Any answers?
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  #58  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:15 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Preterism explained

The class was 12 weeks long?!?! That's it I'm no longer a PRETERIST!

Thank you Sister Amanah.
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  #59  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:23 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
The class was 12 weeks long?!?! That's it I'm no longer a PRETERIST!

Thank you Sister Amanah.
no, lol, he covers the history of all interpretations of The Revelation.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...dhugr95AJ3dMKA
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  #60  
Old 11-21-2018, 11:54 AM
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1ofthechosen 1ofthechosen is offline
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Re: Did The Second Coming Happen In 70AD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I have been teaching Jesus is the Father for 39 years. So that I know. If you are saying that Jesus is no longer the Son but ONLY the Father beware.

You would be denying the doctrine of Christ.

1 John 2:22-24

22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Or:

1 John 4:15

15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
I am not denying the Son at all, but rather allowing Him to stand as the scripture portrays Him. Allowing Him to be glorified, and allowing Him to stand as who He said He was"The Almighty". You believe there is a infilled man in Heaven Mike? So Hes 100 % man and a 100 % God still?
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Last edited by 1ofthechosen; 11-21-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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