Equality: Is it Biblical?

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The argument against abortion should be founded not on any supposed inherent "rights" but on the prohibition against murder, given by God. Biblical arguments are always more sound and secure than humanistic arguments, in my opinion.

Abortion and murder are not handled the same way in the Bible.

Before going any further, I am not advocating for abortion. I am saying that once you do away with the idea that every human life is of equal value, then you fall onto unsteady ground, even biblically, in trying to convince others that abortion is biblically unsound in every situation.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

Human government is a key part to human society.

Jesus Christ did not come to save society.

Society
SOCI'ETY, noun [Latin societas, from socius, a companion. See Sociable.]

1. The union of a number of rational beings; or a number of persons united, either for a temporary or permanent purpose. Thus the inhabitants of a state or of a city constitute a society having common interests; and hence it is called a community. In a more enlarged sense, the whole race or family of man is a society and called human society. The true and natural foundation of society are the wants and fears of individuals. - Webster's Dictionary

Did Jesus come to save "the whole race or family of man"? Then He did indeed come to "save society", meaning His mission is to redeem mankind. Human government is, as you say, a part of society. And Christ as "King of kings and Lord of lords", who has been given "all authority... in heaven and in earth", exercises redemptive authority over all human government.

Societies, in the more limited sense, are the cultures and conglomerations of related peoples. In other words, "the nations". As it is written:

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

The word "gentiles" means "nations". All nations are called by God to repent and obey Christ. That means all societies are to repent and obey Christ. Pagan societies are destined to be transformed by the Gospel into Christian societies, again, as it is written:

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

In any event, this is a side subject to the issue of "equality" and the egalitarian philosophy.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

Before going further with this branch of the discussion, will you please clearly define:

Equality
Equal Rights
Equity

Equality
EQUAL'ITY, noun [Latin oequalitas.] An agreement of things in dimensions, quantity or quality; likeness; similarity in regard to two things compared. We speak of the equality of two or more tracts of land, of two bodies in length, breadth or thickness, of virtues or vices.

1. The same degree of dignity or claims; as the equality of men in the scale of being; the equality of nobles of the same rank; an equality of rights.

2. Evenness; uniformity; sameness in state or continued course; as an equality of temper or constitution.

3. Evenness; plainness; uniformity; as an equality of surface.

Equal
E'QUAL, adjective [Latin oegualis, from oequus, equal even, oeguo, to equal perhaps Gr. similar.]

1. Having the same magnitude or dimensions; being of the same bulk or extent; as an equal quantity of land; a house of equal size; two persons of equal bulk; an equal line or angle.

2. Having the same value; as two commodities of equal price or worth.

3. Having the same qualities or condition; as two men of equal rank or excellence; two bodies of equal hardness or softness.

4. Having the same degree; as two motions of equal velocity.

5. Even; uniform; not variable; as an equal temper or mind.

Ye say, the way of the Lord is not equal Ezekiel 16:1.

6. Being in just proportion; as, my commendation is not equal to his merit.

7. Impartial; neutral; not biased.

Equal and unconcerned, I look on all.

8. Indifferent; of the same interest or concern. He may receive them or not, it is equal to me.

9. Just; equitable; giving the same or similar rights or advantages. The terms and conditions of the contract are equal

10. Being on the same terms; enjoying the same or similar benefits.

They made the married, orphans, widows, yea and the aged also, equal in spoils with themselves.

11. Adequate; having competent power, ability or means. The ship is not equal to her antagonist. The army was not equal to the contest. We are not equal to the undertaking.

E'QUAL, noun One not inferior or superior to another; having the same or a similar age, rank, station, office, talents, strength, etc.

Those who were once his equals, envy and defame him.

It was thou, a man my equal my guide. Psalms 55:13. Galatians 1:14

E'QUAL, verb transitive To make equal; to make one thing of the same quantity, dimensions or quality as another.

1. To rise to the same state, rank or estimation with another; to become equal to. Few officers can expect to equal Washington in fame.

2. To be equal to.

One whose all not equals Edward's moiety.

3. To make equivalent to; to recompense fully; to answer in full proportion.

He answer'd all her cares, and equal'd all her love.

4. To be of like excellence or beauty.

The gold and the crystal cannot equal it. Job 28:17.

RIGHT, noun

5. Just claim; legal title; ownership; the legal power of exclusive possession and enjoyment. In hereditary monarchies, a right to the throne vests in the heir on the decease of the king. A deed vests the right of possession in the purchaser of land. right and possession are very different things. We often have occasion to demand and sue for rights not in possession.

6. Just claim by courtesy, customs, or the principles of civility and decorum. Every man has a right to civil treatment. The magistrate has a right to respect.

7. Just claim by sovereignty; prerogative. God, as the author of all things, has a right to govern and dispose of them at his pleasure.

8. That which justly belongs to one.

Born free, he sought his right

9. Property; interest.

A subject in his prince may claim a right

10. Just claim; immunity; privilege. All men have a right to the secure enjoyment of life, personal safety, liberty and property. We deem the right of trial by jury invaluable, particularly in the case of crimes. Rights are natural, civil, political, religious, personal, and public.

11. Authority; legal power. We have no right to disturb others in the enjoyment of their religious opinions.

Equity
EQ'UITY, noun [Latin oequitas, from oequus, equal, even, level.]

1. Justice; right. In practice, equity is the impartial distribution of justice, or the doing that to another which the laws of God and man, and of reason, give him a right to claim. It is the treating of a person according to justice and reason.

The Lord shall judge the people with equity Psalms 98:9.

With righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity Isaiah 11:4.

2. Justice; impartiality; a just regard to right or claim; as, we must, in equity allow this claim.

3. In law, an equitable claim. 'I consider the wife's equity to be too well settled to be shaken.'

4. In jurisprudence, the correction or qualification of law, when too severe or defective; or the extension of the words of the law to cases not expressed, yet coming within the reason of the law. Hence a court of equity or chancery, is a court which corrects the operation of the literal text of the law, and supplies its defects, by reasonable construction, and by rules of proceeding and deciding, which are not admissible in a court of law. equity then is the law of reason, exercised by the chancellor or judge, giving remedy in cases to which the courts of law are not competent.

My point in this thread, as evidenced by the opening post, is to ascertain what people mean when they say they believe in "equality", or in "equal rights". I have posted several definitions and usages of the terms and concepts on page 1, and have commented how they seem to be somewhat at variance with Biblical principles.

So, those who believe in "equal rights", or who have declared that "all humans have equal value", are invited to define what they mean by those terms, and then to demonstrate that the ideas they believe in are in fact Biblical (taught by Scripture as true).

What has happened so far has been several attempts to define the terms by other posters, but (as I think I have shown already) those terms seem to be rather amorphous and loosely defined, if defined at all. In other words, I am convinced that most Americans claim to believe in "equality" and "equal rights" and the "equal valuation of humans" but are rather unable to accurately define or explain what any of those things mean. And thus, it seems that these slogans of egalitarianism are just that - slogans, that we have been trained and taught to affirm "just because", without any critical examination of what exactly we are being taught.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I liked your post. However, I do take issue with only one thing. I don't see God as "fair". I see God as "just". God allows many of us to suffer hardships that are of no fault of our own, persecution, sickness, disease, tragedy, loss, etc. These things rain upon the just and the unjust. Many play by the rules, live right, act right, speak right, do right, and still their lives are punctuated with tragedy and pain.

God isn't "fair".

But God is "just". All things work for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purposes. God's plans and ways are not our plans and ways. Quite often, the two are opposed to one another. But God's ways always win. If we surrender to Him, realizing that He is "just", and that all things are working together for His will in our lives, He writing our story, we can find peace. Or we can be drug through life kicking and screaming until we're battered and broken by our own self-will, and finally surrender to Him. We determine the "quality" of the path we're on. Obedience, surrender, trust, faith, these things bring peace and rejoicing, even in the face of adversity, trial, and even death.

I remember when I had to explain to my step-daughter the difference between being fair and being just. Her step-brother's birthday is before hers. When he turned twelve, we bought him a nice bicycle and set parameters on where and when he could ride it freely. When she turned twelve, she was expecting a shiny pink bike. But we bought her an art table, art set, and accessories (she loves art). Her reaction was as predicted. The first thing she said about her gift in comparison to his was, "It's not fair!" I had to sit her down and explain to her that she breaks the rules all the time. Whenever we've trusted her, she's violated the boundaries set for her. And so, in concern for her safety, we decided that she wasn't mature enough for a bicycle and the freedom to ride it. I promised her that if she can show me that she's willing to obey the rules, not transgress boundaries, challenge our judgment, etc. I'd buy her a bike on her next birthday. I admitted to her that our decision wasn't "fair". But "fair" would be to possibly put her in danger. Instead, our decision was better than fair. It was tailored just for her and her wellbeing. Our decision was... "just".

I see God the same way. God is just. I thank God that God isn't fair. For if God were fair, where would grace come in? If God were "fair", we'd all get what we deserve, which is Hell and condemnation over our sin. Instead, God offers mercy, forgiveness, and grace. Is it fair that Jesus suffer and die for my sins, or your sins? No. Absolutely not. However, it was a part of God's plan, a plan born of love, it was... just.

Scriptures emphasize equity more than equality. Our Heavenly Father is fair, just and righteous. He understands the strengths and weaknesses of His children. For we are all vessels of clay and His Love towards us is unmerited

The word that proceeded fair was Just and we know God is Just. If you search a synonyms for fair you will find the word equitable. You may not like the term fair but Merriam-Webster's definition for fair is as follows.

Fair: adjective, marked by impartiality and honesty: free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism. Conforming with the established rules.

Using fair as a euphemism is your prerogative but your understanding of the term fair is erroneous. Your querulous post about verbiage preference is contextual hyperbole.

James 2:13 (KJV) For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Selah

[Esaias]

The point of this thread has been to point out that Christians, unfortunately, often do not have a Biblical worldview. Rather, their worldview is usually informed by the various philosophies of the day, secular opinions and beliefs that are simply not Biblical. We desperately need to return to a Biblical worldview, we need to jettison the wisdom of this world (philosophies) that are not of God.

Part of the problem we face is social impotence. The church in Acts "turned the world upside down". The church in America, at least, nowadays can't hardly turn itself around let alone turn the world upside down. We've become largely irrelevant and are losing the next generations as a result. This is not to say all is doom and gloom, or that there are no churches making a solid difference in their communities and in people's lives. But for the most part, American Christianity as a whole has become more like dead weight sinking down rather than the salt and light it should be. And American oneness pentecostals are in a large measure just one cog in the wheel of American Churchianity.

It doesn't have to be this way.

If we can recapture a genuinely Biblical worldview, and bring EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE TO THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST, then I believe we will see genuine revival which will lead to genuine reformation.

Think about this: What does it really achieve, if we impress people with our witness and music and preaching and worship and so forth, and they convert, get baptised, join our churches ... only to be indoctrinated with more humanistic, worldly philosophy? We shoot ourselves in the foot, we cripple new believers and render them impotent to challenge and change the world around them.

I believe we have the opportunity to really do far more than just get a few more folks to sit on the pews. I also believe that if we aren't careful, God will find himself a willing people, some other group of people hungry for God and willing to stand for the Word come what may and against all odds. We may find ourselves in a few generations where the Methodists find themselves now - only a shadow of our former potential and only a bad reflection of what we once were.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The point of this thread has been to point out that Christians, unfortunately, often do not have a Biblical worldview. Rather, their worldview is usually informed by the various philosophies of the day, secular opinions and beliefs that are simply not Biblical. We desperately need to return to a Biblical worldview, we need to jettison the wisdom of this world (philosophies) that are not of God.

Part of the problem we face is social impotence. The church in Acts "turned the world upside down". The church in America, at least, nowadays can't hardly turn itself around let alone turn the world upside down. We've become largely irrelevant and are losing the next generations as a result. This is not to say all is doom and gloom, or that there are no churches making a solid difference in their communities and in people's lives. But for the most part, American Christianity as a whole has become more like dead weight sinking down rather than the salt and light it should be. And American oneness pentecostals are in a large measure just one cog in the wheel of American Churchianity.

It doesn't have to be this way.

If we can recapture a genuinely Biblical worldview, and bring EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE TO THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST, then I believe we will see genuine revival which will lead to genuine reformation.

Think about this: What does it really achieve, if we impress people with our witness and music and preaching and worship and so forth, and they convert, get baptised, join our churches ... only to be indoctrinated with more humanistic, worldly philosophy? We shoot ourselves in the foot, we cripple new believers and render them impotent to challenge and change the world around them.

I believe we have the opportunity to really do far more than just get a few more folks to sit on the pews. I also believe that if we aren't careful, God will find himself a willing people, some other group of people hungry for God and willing to stand for the Word come what may and against all odds. We may find ourselves in a few generations where the Methodists find themselves now - only a shadow of our former potential and only a bad reflection of what we once were.

I will go further and suggest that because most American Christians, including most oneness pentecostals, have been the victims of the public education system, they have been indoctrinated with a humanistic worldview and "progressive" communist thought processes. They THINK like humanists and communists, or at least think in the way that humanists and communists want them to think. They cannot shake off the programming, because it occurred from age 5 to age 18 MINIMUM, 180 days a year MINIMUM, for 13 years MINIMUM, during the most important, formative stages of their life. Sadly, many continue to send their children to the same public schools to be given the same (and worse!) humanistic antichristian brainwashing "education"... and no wonder folks leave the churches by the droves once they become adults and move out of Mom and Dad's house!

30-45 minute flannelgraphs on Sunday with pizza and sody pop is simply no match for 8 hour per day, 180+ days per year, 13 years from age 5 to 18 of nonstop progressive communist mass indoctrination in a society controlled from the top by people who literally drink the blood of teenagers, worship Lucifer, and who want to do nothing but either export mind-blowing levels of filth to corrupt and destroy your children, or else genocide you off the land one way or the other as long as you stay dumb and don't realise what's going on.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I will go further and suggest that because most American Christians, including most oneness pentecostals, have been the victims of the public education system, they have been indoctrinated with a humanistic worldview and "progressive" communist thought processes. They THINK like humanists and communists, or at least think in the way that humanists and communists want them to think. They cannot shake off the programming, because it occurred from age 5 to age 18 MINIMUM, 180 days a year MINIMUM, for 13 years MINIMUM, during the most important, formative stages of their life. Sadly, many continue to send their children to the same public schools to be given the same (and worse!) humanistic antichristian brainwashing "education"... and no wonder folks leave the churches by the droves once they become adults and move out of Mom and Dad's house!

30-45 minute flannelgraphs on Sunday with pizza and sody pop is simply no match for 8 hour per day, 180+ days per year, 13 years from age 5 to 18 of nonstop progressive communist mass indoctrination in a society controlled from the top by people who literally drink the blood of teenagers, worship Lucifer, and who want to do nothing but either export mind-blowing levels of filth to corrupt and destroy your children, or else genocide you off the land one way or the other as long as you stay dumb and don't realise what's going on.

Christian Education is an important mandate from God that we need to obey.
To allow Socialist Government indoctrination centers to brainwash our children is at best ignorant.

Deuteronomy 6:4–7
4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.2
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I will go further and suggest that because most American Christians, including most oneness pentecostals, have been the victims of the public education system, they have been indoctrinated with a humanistic worldview and "progressive" communist thought processes. They THINK like humanists and communists, or at least think in the way that humanists and communists want them to think. They cannot shake off the programming, because it occurred from age 5 to age 18 MINIMUM, 180 days a year MINIMUM, for 13 years MINIMUM, during the most important, formative stages of their life. Sadly, many continue to send their children to the same public schools to be given the same (and worse!) humanistic antichristian brainwashing "education"... and no wonder folks leave the churches by the droves once they become adults and move out of Mom and Dad's house!

30-45 minute flannelgraphs on Sunday with pizza and sody pop is simply no match for 8 hour per day, 180+ days per year, 13 years from age 5 to 18 of nonstop progressive communist mass indoctrination in a society controlled from the top by people who literally drink the blood of teenagers, worship Lucifer, and who want to do nothing but either export mind-blowing levels of filth to corrupt and destroy your children, or else genocide you off the land one way or the other as long as you stay dumb and don't realise what's going on.

Preach!



Revelation 5:5 (KJV) And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Selah

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I will go further and suggest that because most American Christians, including most oneness pentecostals, have been the victims of the public education system, they have been indoctrinated with a humanistic worldview and "progressive" communist thought processes. They THINK like humanists and communists, or at least think in the way that humanists and communists want them to think. They cannot shake off the programming, because it occurred from age 5 to age 18 MINIMUM, 180 days a year MINIMUM, for 13 years MINIMUM, during the most important, formative stages of their life. Sadly, many continue to send their children to the same public schools to be given the same (and worse!) humanistic antichristian brainwashing "education"... and no wonder folks leave the churches by the droves once they become adults and move out of Mom and Dad's house!

30-45 minute flannelgraphs on Sunday with pizza and sody pop is simply no match for 8 hour per day, 180+ days per year, 13 years from age 5 to 18 of nonstop progressive communist mass indoctrination in a society controlled from the top by people who literally drink the blood of teenagers, worship Lucifer, and who want to do nothing but either export mind-blowing levels of filth to corrupt and destroy your children, or else genocide you off the land one way or the other as long as you stay dumb and don't realise what's going on.

Amen.

[Aquila]

Beyond biblically defined gender roles, in what ways are human beings not equal in God's eyes?