Pastor Gino Jennings, Make It Plain.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So then you agree, that if a woman have no hair she is to cut her hair, because having no hair is all one as if she had no hair?

so according to you 1cor 11:6... but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. means? what is her covering?
next verse 7 For a man ought not to cover his head.... means to you a hat,scarf or long hair?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

so according to you 1cor 11:6... but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. means? what is her covering?
next verse 7 For a man ought not to cover his head.... means to you a hat,scarf or long hair?

I believe that a woman ought to have her head covered when praying or prophesying, and if she won't then she might as well have her hair cut off, because both are dishonourable.

And, men ought NOT to have their head covered when praying or prophesying because that is likewise dishonourable. I also believe that NATURE TEACHES US a lesson that supports the apostle's instructions: if a man have long hair it is a shame but if a woman has long hair it is glorious. The lesson from nature is a support to the instruction of the apostle.

So men ought to have short hair, and ought to be uncovered when praying or prophesying (ie when worshipping), and women ought to have long hair and ought to be covered when praying or prophesying. And, if a woman will not be covered, then she ought to ALSO (in addition, in addition to not being covered) have her hair cut off.

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
(1 Corinthians 11:5-6)

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I believe that a woman ought to have her head covered when praying or prophesying, and if she won't then she might as well have her hair cut off, because both are dishonourable.

And, men ought NOT to have their head covered when praying or prophesying because that is likewise dishonourable. I also believe that NATURE TEACHES US a lesson that supports the apostle's instructions: if a man have long hair it is a shame but if a woman has long hair it is glorious. The lesson from nature is a support to the instruction of the apostle.

So men ought to have short hair, and ought to be uncovered when praying or prophesying (ie when worshipping), and women ought to have long hair and ought to be covered when praying or prophesying. And, if a woman will not be covered, then she ought to ALSO (in addition, in addition to not being covered) have her hair cut off.

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
(1 Corinthians 11:5-6)

so in addition to long hair which the scripture says is given for a covering you want another type of covering on the women. is that correct?

[Esaias]

This is also indicated in the old testament.

For women, it was a shame to have their headcovering removed:

Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.
(Isaiah 47:2-3)

Under the old covenant, the glory of God was covered:

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(2 Corinthians 3:7-18)

To reflect this truth, the priest had to have their heads covered when ministering:

And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. ... And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD. And thou shalt embroider the coat of fine linen, and thou shalt make the mitre of fine linen, and thou shalt make the girdle of needlework. And for Aaron's sons thou shalt make coats, and thou shalt make for them girdles, and bonnets shalt thou make for them, for glory and for beauty. And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office. And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach: And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
(Exodus 28:2-43)

So the priests had to have their heads covered under the old covenant worship system. This reflects the truth that God's glory was concealed under the old covenant, but being now revealed under the new covenant, the head is to be UNCOVERED:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
(1 Corinthians 11:3-4)

Under the old covenant, Christ (the visible image of the invisible God, the express brightness of God's glory) was concealed. But under the new covenant, that glory is on display. The head covering issue illustrates this truth during worship. The man is the glory and image of God, and thus is a picture of Christ, and thus is to be uncovered. The woman is the glory of the man, and thus represent's "man's glory" which is of course to be covered up in the presence of God and the holy angels:

For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
(1 Corinthians 11:10)

The Christian woman's head covering is the token of the proper authority being obeyed in the church, namely that God's Divine Order is being acknowledged and followed.

So where does the hair come into all this?

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
(1 Corinthians 11:13-15)

First of all, there is a lesson from nature. This is a natural lesson, a lesson taught in the natural, which illustrates and supports and shed's light on and helps us to visualise the propriety and truth of the apostle's teaching. Nature teaches us that a man having long hair is shameful, but it is glorious for a woman to have long hair. This can be proven very easily (at least as far as women are concerned) by the fact that whenever a woman has long, flowing hair other women tend to admire her hair and declare how beautiful it is.

So what is the lesson? In the natural, for a man to have hair like a woman, which resembles a head covering or veil, is shameful, whereas it is appropriate for a woman. In the natural, a woman's hair is given her for "a covering". But we need to make note of what kind of "covering" - it is a peribolaion, what in English we would call a shawl or mantle. It means "something thrown around" like a wrap. The peribolaion was an article of clothing wrapped around the body. Sometimes it would be also draped over the head (just like shawls are today). The long hair is given to the woman as something to wrap around her and cover her. And in the natural, this is good and beautiful for a woman, but not so for a man.

The key is to note that this is IN THE NATURAL, and is brought up by the apostle specifically to SUPPORT a teaching he has concerning head covering. It cannot be taken to mean that a woman having long hair SUPPLANTS or REPLACES her head being covered as taught by Paul in the first part of his teaching in chapter 11, because that creates a CONTRADICTION.

Paul says if a woman is uncovered, it is AS IF she were shaven (had short or no hair). He says if the woman doesn't want to be covered, then she ought to ALSO (in addition) be shorn (have her hair cut short or off). This clearly proves the covering in the first part of the chapter is IN ADDITION to hair, and cannot itself be the hair. Otherwise, Paul would be saying if a woman had her hair cut off it is AS IF she had her hair cut off, and if she has her hair cut off she ought to ALSO have her hair cut off!

Furthermore, we can see historically that everyone throughout all time until the mid to late 1800s understood 1 Corinthians ch 11 to be teaching that women ought to be wearing a head covering of some kind during worship, and that men ought NOT to be doing the same. It was only with the rise of modernism, the feminist movement ("Suffragettes" and others), and liberalism that other interpretations came into vogue (such as "Paul's instructions were only relevant to 1st century Corinth", or "the hair is itself the covering commanded"). Today, most American and western European "Christians" ignore this teaching, or substitute hair (or in some cases wedding rings!) in place of the head covering. It is interesting, though, that practically EVERY WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD (with the exception of China) all sects o fChristendom, including apostolics, maintain the ancient and historical understanding of Paul's teaching. Only recently, in western societies (and communist countries like China which has created a largely unisex culture), have Christians departed from the biblical and historical norm.

But not entirely, for in most churches in America it is (or at least was) the norm for the men to at least remove any head coverings they might have when they come to church. This is a vestige of the ancient practice that many still continue without a clue as to why.

[houston]

Well stated, Essayas.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by houston

Well stated, Essayas.

Well, I do try.

[Michael The Disciple]

Today, most American and western European "Christians" ignore this teaching, or substitute hair (or in some cases wedding rings!) in place of the head covering. It is interesting, though, that practically EVERY WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD (with the exception of China) all sects o fChristendom, including apostolics, maintain the ancient and historical understanding of Paul's teaching. Only recently, in western societies (and communist countries like China which has created a largely unisex culture), have Christians departed from the biblical and historical norm.

Also among the "Black Apostolics" many of them still practice the headcovering!

Oops I was thinking this was a different thread. It would be obvious in a thread about Gino that Black Churches cover!

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I dont get it. The Bible teaches that the hair is given for a covering. this veil doctrine is false doctrine.

Dont be so fast to protect your religious rights...
1)take a dictionary and you will see that is a totaly diferent word used Paul to describe the natural covering (perivoleon =something put around) and the veil (katakalima=something put up to the head for hide something).
2) Did Paul wanted women to prophesy and prey with long hair and aftwer that puy it away? How a woman with long hair could be uncovered during prayer then?
3) Does it makes since to you? " For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
According to the long hair interpatetion must read "For if the woman be not with long hair,let her also be shorn:but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven ,;et her has long hair'?
search it and question your self (not your faith) you self. Is my religion the only one right? Or just a one more denomination in the Church of Christ?
Peace.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by peter83

Dont be so fast to protect your religious rights...
1)take a dictionary and you will see that is a totaly diferent word used Paul to describe the natural covering (perivoleon =something put around) and the veil (katakalima=something put up to the head for hide something).
2) Did Paul wanted women to prophesy and prey with long hair and aftwer that puy it away? How a woman with long hair could be uncovered during prayer then?
3) Does it makes since to you? " For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
According to the long hair interpatetion must read "For if the woman be not with long hair,let her also be shorn:but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven ,;et her has long hair'?
search it and question your self (not your faith) you self. Is my religion the only one right? Or just a one more denomination in the Church of Christ?
Peace.

We're definitely not one more denomination in the Church of Christ. There is absolutely no denominations in the Church of Christ. And not the people who call their self church of Christ either!

I believe hair is important, but the differences in salvation methods, and even who God is whether He is one or 3 makes a distinction that can't be rectified. If you are worshipping multiplicities of diety that's a pantheon. We are monotheistic, and we are Baptized in His name, we are part of His named people. We have His Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in His language, as His Spirit gives the utterance. And we are washed and cleaned in His blood. We are the only people in the world who truly follow Matthew 28:19. And apart from Acts 2:38 there is no other way to be saved. And there is no other name given amongst men under heaven by which you must be saved.

These my friend are unreconcilable differences. All I can say is you didn't end up here on accident, you are here for one or two purposes. Either God led you here, or Satan. All I can say is there is not many ways to Jesus only one. And anything not going to Jesus you are giving to Satan. That's all he wants to do is divert worship, so it doesn't go in the right place. Don't be deceived!

[peter83]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

These my friend are unreconcilable differences. All I can say is you didn't end up here on accident, you are here for one or two purposes. Either God led you here, or Satan. All I can say is there is not many ways to Jesus only one. And anything not going to Jesus you are giving to Satan. That's all he wants to do is divert worship, so it doesn't go in the right place. Don't be deceived!

Sorry what makes you believe Satan drive me here? I am not a oneness Christian or what? Please explain what makes you think i am decieved.
My commnet was about woman head coverings. If you dont afree thats ok but that means i am deiceved ad drivn from Satan? please explain...