Billy Graham

[JamesGlen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

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[Aquila]

Join the Sola Scriptura discussion.

[Aquila]

“The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” (Deut. 29:29)

God has not revealed all things regarding His divine will and counsel to man. There are things regarding His nature, His will, His salvation, and His creation that are hidden from the prying minds of men. There are innumerable questions, scenarios, hypotheticals, and seeming contradictions that belong to God and God alone.

But those things that are revealed belong to us and our posterity forever, that we might obey all that He desires of us.

In this thread the question of the eternal destiny of Christian men and women of genuine faith, repentance, love, and desire to please God, but who had incomplete knowledge of the full application of the Gospel, or who have had an incomplete experience of that application of the Gospel, has been discussed.

Many brethren of sincere and genuine faith contend that we can know that God will condemn all who have not experienced Acts 2:38 as we have. But that is only one perspective. Please note, they have quoted a Bible that God preserved, translated, and proliferated through sincere men without the full Acts 2:38 experience. Many have even cited commentary from those of incomplete understanding in other discussions. Some even go as far as supporting Reformed Trinitarian doctrines of the Five Solas, that were foundational to the Protestant Reformation. Many will no doubt sing, Amazing Grace, How Great Thou Art, Great Is Thy Faithfulness, and other beloved hymns, written by men of incomplete understanding and experience in their churches in the coming weeks. Many of their churches will have choirs learning Gospel, Country, and even Contemporary Christian worship and praise songs throughout the coming weeks...all written and produced by those of incomplete knowledge and understanding.

Imagine a church singing, crying, and worshipping to, Amazing Grace, but counting the man who wrote of such grace as having never experienced it. That troubles me. It just does.

However, I have presented another view. One that is as old as Pentecost itself. A view held by the founders of our movement. A view articulated in many works from many Apostolic organizations. The view that holds to Acts 2:38 as being the full standard of salvation taught in the Holy Bible, but refrains from automatically casting any judgement, for or against, the salvation or damnation of other Christians of sincere and genuine faith towards God who followeth not us. This view finds greater balance in commending these souls to God, allowing these Christians to be judged by God, and by God alone in accordance to His sovereignty as it relates to the hidden things of His will, that belong only to Him. This view offers no assurance outside of Acts 2:38, holding that only in obeying Acts 2:38 can one know and experience full assurance of salvation.

Obey Acts 2:38.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

“The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” (Deut. 29:29)

However, I have presented another view. One that is as old as Pentecost itself. A view held by the founders of our movement. A view articulated in many works from many Apostolic organizations. The view that holds to Acts 2:38 as being the full standard of salvation taught in the Holy Bible, but refrains from automatically casting any judgement, for or against, the salvation or damnation of other Christians of sincere and genuine faith towards God who followeth not us. This view finds greater balance in commending these souls to God, allowing these Christians to be judged by God, and by God alone in accordance to His sovereignty as it relates to the hidden things of His will, that belong only to Him. This view offers no assurance outside of Acts 2:38, holding that only in obeying Acts 2:38 can one know and experience full assurance of salvation.

Obey Acts 2:38.

Chris, too bad you didn't find the Apostle Paul penning Deuteronomy 29:29. Because it might of helped your case. But Deuteronomy 29:29 is speaking of things of Messiah which the Apostle Paul told us would be known to all men Ephesians 3:3, Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:4, 1 Corinthians 2:10. So the hidden things of God are reveled in Jesus Christ John 5:39. In Hebrews the writer explains the importance of those to accept and keep the truth. In Hebrew 10:28-29 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? This isn't about one certain movement in the 20th century or people singing amazing grace to tingle your emotions and bring moist tears to your eyes. This is about what sayeth the LORD. Warnings that the Apostle gave because he understood the gravity of the situation. That when Peter said repent and be baptized everyone of YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, that the promise was for those Judeans standing there listening to Peter. For their generations, and for all that we afar off in every corner of the World. Sorry, I wish I could agree with you, and just allow the celestial roulette wheel spin. But I have a job to do, and that isn't by closing a blind eye to poor souls who are singing amazing grace, but have blind guides giving them false assurance. Galatians 1:6-9 warns plainly that Amazing Grace how sweet the sound no matter how sincerely you sing it can't get you to heaven. You just can't see that you are arguing a salvation based on works. Chris you must obey the Truth that Jesus and His apostles instructed us. No one gets in any other way, because they will be labeled a thief and a LIAR, and we know that all liars have their place in a lake of fire. One way to God, baptized in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Imagine a church singing, crying, and worshipping to, Amazing Grace, but counting the man who wrote of such grace as having never experienced it. That troubles me. It just does.

It should trouble you. It should trouble everyone who has found the Truth of the Kingdom. Yet, that troubling thought should compel us to preach and teach the fullness of Christ’s Kingdom. Not to create off ramps from the broadway to the narrow way. It is sad to see a Billy Graham preach unto others then himself become a cast away.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila View Post

EB, were you always a Preterist, from the very day you were born again?

Is there any chance that tomorrow's study and contemplation might reveal to something that you might not be considering today? Or, have you come to know all things, leaving you frozen in every position you hold right now?

In a way this is hilarious. PRETERISTS fighting it out who gets to go to Heaven! Paul seemed to consider PRETERISM as something that OVERTHREW the faith of some.

2 Tim. 2:16-17

16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I would say if PRETS will be in Heaven there is a chance Billy will be there.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Aquila

[INDENT]

However, I have presented another view. One that is as old as Pentecost itself. A view held by the founders of our movement. A view articulated in many works from many Apostolic organizations. The view that holds to Acts 2:38 as being the full standard of salvation taught in the Holy Bible, but refrains from automatically casting any judgement, for or against, the salvation or damnation of other Christians of sincere and genuine faith towards God who followeth not us. This view finds greater balance in commending these souls to God, allowing these Christians to be judged by God, and by God alone in accordance to His sovereignty as it relates to the hidden things of His will, that belong only to Him. This view offers no assurance outside of Acts 2:38, holding that only in obeying Acts 2:38 can one know and experience full assurance of salvation.

Obey Acts 2:38.

Sorry but this is not true. "As old as Pentecost itself" refers to that which was preached at the birth of the church. I'm not sure which movement you are part of, but the Founders of the movement that I am a part of were Jesus Christ himself and the original 12. Their persuasion was as follows:

• Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
  
• But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. <meaning eternally damned
  
• But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

What movement, may I ask are you apart of? Who were its founders?

[consapente89]

If by founders you mean men such as G.T. Haywood, Andrew Urshan, R.E. McAlister, Frank Ewart, Glen Cook, Howard Goss or men such as them, then doubtless they were good men and used for advancing the cause of the Gospel. None of them, however, founded the church or began the movement I am a part of, even though I am grateful for their stand for the Gospel. Furthermore, if any of them believed in an alternative to Acts 2:38 or that there was ANY HOPE of an eternity other than damnation outside of the Apostolic Pattern, then they simply were wrong.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by consapente89

If by founders you mean men such as G.T. Haywood, Andrew Urshan, R.E. McAlister, Frank Ewart, Glen Cook, Howard Goss or men such as them, then doubtless they were good men and used for advancing the cause of the Gospel. None of them, however, founded the church or began the movement I am a part of, even though I am grateful for their stand for the Gospel. Furthermore, if any of them believed in an alternative to Acts 2:38 or that there was ANY HOPE of an eternity other than damnation outside of the Apostolic Pattern, then they simply were wrong.

good points, thank you.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Okay. My position is actually the classical position of the Apostolic movement, including most of our founders. It's in the works of Bernard, was taught by Harvey and Hiss Shearer (Huss was my first pastor), and it leaves all judgment in the hands of a righteous God, neither affirming or denying salvation to nominal Christians outside our movement.

These were good men, men of revelations, dreams, and visions. In fact, much of what you appreciate in Pentecost was provided by their hard work, prayers, and dedication. You stand on the shoulders of giants.

Here's my question... (this can be answered by EB too)

Is their any chance you COULD be wrong?

Taught by most of our founders?
My great-grandfather was one of the first to accept the message in the midwest and neither he, nor my grandfather believed (or preached) that there was any other way to be saved.
So, I would disagree with your perspective.