Trinitarian Commentaries vs. Discourse Analysis (E

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Are there more discourse analysis quotes ? Any from OT literature ?

What's interesting is the passage in Philippians parallels Adam's story, but with Christ as the second Adam and reversing the Fall.

Adam, being made in the likeness, image, or "form" of God, tried to grasp equality with God by eating the forbidden fruit, yet suffered a forced death because of it.

Christ, likewise in the form of God, did not try to grasp equality with God, but instead humbled himself voluntarily - even to death - and as a result was exalted to the position of God (as indicated by Paul's citation of Isaiah 45 but applied to Christ).

So then Christ is fulfilling the role of second Adam, recapitulating the Fall but doing what Adam should have done in the first place. The passage in Philippians is a good example of Paul's Adam Christology.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sean

No, it is identical.

Once you finish wrecking the KJV, then you will be wrecked by endless new modern versions that all say an average of 50,000 words different from each other because of copyright laws.

You are in no man's land now, and free from the word of God, to switch to seminary translations, which are actually.... commentary .

*LOL - perfect object lesson on the errors of KJVO. Cannot believe that any one w. any literacy seriously peddles this stuff . What I am freeing this church from is absurd traditions like your posts here. Good reminder of why I rarely post here .

Originally Posted by Sean

What we did in our men's group meeting is compare verses from the KJV to the completely missing or completely changed verses in the modern versions.

Jaws dropped unanimously.

Try it sometime.

So silly. Wonder what would happen if Erasmus would have compared his (5) Greek compilations to the Vulgate of his day ? Ohhh, never mind...why bother w. such contented delusion?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

The issue is different translations are translated from different Greek manuscripts. No 2 manuscripts are word for word identical.

It makes perfect sense for Bibles translated from different manuscripts to read differently.

Just to make things worse, the quotes from the OT in the NT do not always match how they read in the OT. Since this does not seem to be a problem for NT authors, it is not a problem for me.

*Spot-on. Very good points.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sean

Scott, you are ignoring the fact that these modern translations are forced to differ from each other by about 10%.

They are forced to change verses by copyright law.

*Ummm, you dooo realize the KJV was "modern" only 400+ years ago now don't you?

*Here, for any one needing some literacy on this topic, see Elder J.R. Ensey's recently released magnum opus on this topic. With almost 800 end notes it is easily the most exhaustive & current text-critical work in print on this particular topic :

http://www.advanceministries.org/sto...hp?cat=General

*Or, also see here: http://www.bible.ca/b-kjv-only.htm

https://bible.org/article/why-i-do-n...vailable-today

*But, as w. virtually every-single KJVO I've ever encountered - it's an exercise in futility to show them their well-documented factual errors. Carry on .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Did your research determine that the Westcott-Hort recension, the Critical Text, is superior and authentic compared to the Reformation Bible text? That the 45 verses, including the Mark Ending, the Pericope Adulterae, Acts 8:37, “father, forgive them”, the heavenly winesses, were dastardly interpolations rather than authenic scripture?

Steven

*Again, I am well familiar w. your position. But, your info. is outdated (as demonstrated by your appeal to WH above) & agenda-driven (as demonstrated by your charge of "dastardly interpolations" above). Variants are individually weighed not counted (Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy). I would advise you to interact w. Munster, the world-hub of text-criticism proper (http://egora.uni-muenster.de/intf/index_en.shtml).

There is presently a massive collation being conducted in Munster from all Greek MSS for variants, etc. based upon the Coherence Based Genealogical Method:

https://www.uni-muenster.de/INTF/Gen...al_method.html

https://reformedforum.org/ctc476/

*Some evidences support Byzantine-Western readings - others Alexandrian renderings. This is where the very hard work of unbiased text-critical work enters the scenario. It's simply labeled as scholastic integrity & humility.

*Teaching on textual variants tomorrow night. Busy next few days .

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by rdp

This is where the very hard work of unbiased text-critical work enters the scenario. It's simply labeled as scholastic integrity & humility.

Is it possible to have "unbiased text-critical work"?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Esaias

All things are ours - including all the commentaries, which while requiring wisdom in judging the opinions of men, are nevertheless at our disposal.

Paul had no problem quoting Greek poets to support his points, yet he certainly wasn't bound to their opinions, either.

What's your take on the "Philippian Hymn"? I'm not convinced it's a hymn to begin with...

*An interesting note from the NET translators:

This passage has been typeset as poetry because many scholars regard this passage as poetic or hymnic. These terms are used broadly to refer to the genre of writing, not to the content. There are two broad criteria for determining if a passage is poetic or hymnic: "(a) stylistic: a certain rhythmical lilt when the passages are read aloud, the presence of parallelismus membrorum (i.e., an arrangement into couplets), the semblance of some metre, and the presence of rhetorical devices such as alliteration, chiasmus, and antithesis; and (b) linguistic: an unusual vocabulary, particularly the presence of theological terms, which is different from the surrounding context" (P. T. O'Brien, Philippians [NIGTC], 188-89). Classifying a passage as hymnic or poetic is important because understanding this genre can provide keys to interpretation. However, not all scholars agree that the above criteria are present in this passage, so the decision to typeset it as poetry should be viewed as a tentative decision about its genre.

*I appreciate their honesty in this quote.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is it possible to have "unbiased text-critical work"?

*I do very often wrestle w. that question myself (regarding many things). For me, this is where keeping a close/governing watch on oneself comes in to play...which, of course, is very difficult to do.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by rdp

*Ummm, you dooo realize the KJV was "modern" only 400+ years ago now don't you?

*Here, for any one needing some literacy on this topic, see Elder J.R. Ensey's recently released magnum opus on this topic. With almost 800 end notes it is easily the most exhaustive & current text-critical work in print on this particular topic :

http://www.advanceministries.org/sto...hp?cat=General

*Or, also see here: http://www.bible.ca/b-kjv-only.htm

https://bible.org/article/why-i-do-n...vailable-today

*But, as w. virtually every-single KJVO I've ever encountered - it's an exercise in futility to show them their well-documented factual errors. Carry on .

The KJV is the standard for all Bibles to compare to.

Just imagine a world with no KJV.

I can, and it would not be pretty.

Every translation would be greatly different, and nobody would have an accurate word of God, only chaotic translations coming right out of the translation mills of seminary.

[Sean]

The following quote is taken from the United States Copyright Office . . .



How much do I have to change in my own work to make a new claim of copyright?

You may make a new claim in your work if the changes are substantial and creative, something more than just editorial changes or minor changes. This would qualify as a new derivative work. For instance, simply making spelling corrections throughout a work does not warrant a new registration, but adding an additional chapter would. See Circular 14, Copyright Registration in Derivative Works and Compilations, for further information.



My advice is to check and see if the translation one prefers is subject to copyright laws.