Seconds of Pre Embryonic Life of Jesus Christ?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sean

No, just not getting questions answered like here.

Nobody wins arguing.

There are much better debaters than I over there though....


https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/re...ject-preterism


You should answer this mans thread.

Sean, you're not even on the list of credible debaters. Your inept attempts at discussing anything biblical is woefully pathetic.

Sean, do everyone--including you--a favor and stop posting here and anywhere else. Instead, since you always (your claim) show visitors your house before introducing them to your wife, you should spend your time as a Realtor.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Burk, Sean is a flagrant pathological liar. That comment about FIRST showing his house to people before they meet his wife is nonsense. But he just said it because he has to win an argument. Not, provide answers, not to produce truth from the scripture, but to win a fight. This guy has no life outside of his internet trolling. May the Lord have mercy on us all in Jesus name. It is grievous to sit back and watch what our country has produced as far as Christians. Don't get me wrong we have some of the finest we could ever hope for. Some post here, but the pendulum swings incredibly far when we have such slithering serpents who hold such an inflated view of themselves.

He FIRST shows people his house before he introduces them to his wife? What is he a Hobbit?

You are correct!

Where does Sean keep her? Poor lady.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

You are correct!

Where does Sean keep her? Poor lady.

Where does Sean keep here is right. Does he tell her to go into the back yard while he shows the house? Ludicrous behavior from Sean isn't new. But in Revelation the New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ. She weds only ONE HUSBAND. Not two like one nesting doll in another. Jesus is the Father and the Son. One God, 100% God 100% man.

[Aquila]

I've looked at this from several different angles. Here's all I can find biblically:

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I don't see wherein anything "male" was contributed naturally or supernaturally. I see the seed of a woman (an ovum?) being supernaturally transformed into a zygote. No supernatural sperm, no natural sperm. Just the seed of a woman supernaturally formed into a baby.

[Amanah]

DNA comes from more than one parent, and the blood shed for the remission of our sins had to be sinless

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've looked at this from several different angles. Here's all I can find biblically:

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I don't see wherein anything "male" was contributed naturally or supernaturally. I see the seed of a woman (an ovum?) being supernaturally transformed into a zygote. No supernatural sperm, no natural sperm. Just the seed of a woman supernaturally formed into a baby.

How then was Jesus called the "son" of David?

A pure lineage was needed to confirm the rightful heir to the throne of David. Paul stated that Jesus was that heir because He was of the “seed” of David.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries defines this word “seed” as:

sperma (G4690): From G4687; something sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.

Thayer’s Greek Definitions defines “seed” as follows:

1) from which a plant germinates 1a) the seed, i.e. the grain or kernel which contains within itself the germ of the future plants 1a1) of the grains or kernels sown 1b) metaphorically a seed, i.e. a residue, or a few survivors reserved as the germ of the next generation (just as seed is kept from the harvest for the sowing)

2) the semen virile 2a) the product of this semen, seed, children, offspring, progeny 2b) family, tribe, posterity 2c) whatever possesses vital force or life giving power 2c1) of divine energy of the Holy Spirit operating within the soul by which we are regenerated

Thus, both Strong’s and Thayer’s define the Greek word “sperma” as a natural seed, which refers to a human’s biological offspring. Paul’s usage of sperma, within the context of his statement, has him defining Jesus as a man born from the “seed” of David. Or, in other words, Paul was saying that Jesus was a biological descendant of David. This interpretation aligns perfectly with the next scriptures. These foretold of a time when the “seed” or “lineage” of David would sit upon David’s throne. This promised “seed” isn’t said to be a reincarnated David (though that idea, as ludicrous as it sounds, has been suggested), but is instead to be a man that is an incarnate descendant of David.

Psalms 89:3-4 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto DAVID MY SERVANT, (4) THY SEED will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

Psalms 89:35-36 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto DAVID. (36) HIS SEED shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

Psalms 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; OF THE FRUIT OF THY BODY will I set upon thy throne.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out OF THY BOWELS, and I will establish his kingdom.

The ESV translates this last passage as follows:

2 Samuel 7:12-13 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall COME FROM YOUR BODY, and I will establish his kingdom. (13) He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

There are two genealogies concerning Jesus’ lineage. Matthew gives the lineage of Joseph, and Luke lists the lineage of Mary (see Matthew 1; Luke 3). We know Jesus could not be of the “seed” of David through Joseph, since he was Jesus’ “supposed” father (see Luke 3:23). Therefore, Jesus’ lineage to David must come through His mother, Mary. Concerning Mary being the link to David’s “seed,” consider the following reference from the Summarized Bible:

“Matthew gives Joseph’s genealogy—Luke gives Mary’s. Luke does not say Heli ‘begat’ Joseph. Joseph was his son-in-law. If Jesus was the son of Joseph, as some claim, He is forever barred from the throne, being a descendant of Coniah who was cursed, that none of his line might have the throne. Jesus was accordingly conceived by the Holy Ghost in Mary, Mary’s father being a descendant of David through another line.”

Therefore, this promise could not fall to any descendant of Coniah (see Jeremiah 22:28-30). Though it is true that Jesus’ mother, Mary, is biblically of David’s lineage; she did not meet all the Messianic prophecies and was thus disqualified from being this prophesied “seed.” Therefore, someone else who was to be born – physically – from the “seed “of” David’s body had to fulfill that promise.” Luke 3:23-38 gives the physical lineage of Jesus. This lineage proves Jesus descended from David’s “seed.” It also proves that His lineage is not traced through the rejected lineage of Coniah. However, to literally be of David’s “seed” and his “lineage,” Jesus would need to have inherited Mary’s flesh. As a result, Jesus would have to have been biologically related to both Mary and to her forefather, David. The Bible says that Jesus did fulfill these stipulations, and as a result, became the rightful heir of the throne of David. This point is the focus of these verses:

Acts 2:30-31 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, (31) he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of THE CHRIST, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, my steadfast, sure love FOR DAVID.

Acts 13:34 And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way, "'I will give you the holy and sure blessings OF DAVID.'

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ COMETH OF THE SEED OF DAVID, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, THAT OF THE FRUIT OF HIS LOINS, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Acts 13:22-23 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will. (23) OF THIS MAN'S SEED hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE OF THE SEED OF DAVID ACCORDING TO THE FLESH;

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that JESUS CHRIST OF THE SEED OF DAVID was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

It is the consistent testimony of Scripture, starting from the earliest Gospel tradition, that Jesus is a son of David:

Mark 10:46-48 And they came to Jericho: and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging. (47) And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou SON OF DAVID, have mercy on me. (48) And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.

Acts 2:25-31 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: (26) Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: (27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (28) Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. (29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. (30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that OF THE FRUIT OF HIS LOINS, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; (31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ OF THE SEED OF DAVID was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Upon hearing from a preacher friend of mine that some Christians believe Jesus was not a human descendant of David, one Rabbi commented: “I would love to debate such people on the subject of Jesus being the true messiah. If they say he is not a human descendant, then I could destroy their argument that says he was the true messiah.” This Rabbi knew that the scriptures teach, without question, the necessity of the Messiah being from the human lineage of David. Without this lineage, Jesus would be a false Messiah.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

How then was Jesus called the "son" of David?

A pure lineage was needed to confirm the rightful heir to the throne of David. Paul stated that Jesus was that heir because He was of the “seed” of David.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries defines this word “seed” as:

sperma (G4690): From G4687; something sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.

Thayer’s Greek Definitions defines “seed” as follows:

1) from which a plant germinates 1a) the seed, i.e. the grain or kernel which contains within itself the germ of the future plants 1a1) of the grains or kernels sown 1b) metaphorically a seed, i.e. a residue, or a few survivors reserved as the germ of the next generation (just as seed is kept from the harvest for the sowing)

2) the semen virile 2a) the product of this semen, seed, children, offspring, progeny 2b) family, tribe, posterity 2c) whatever possesses vital force or life giving power 2c1) of divine energy of the Holy Spirit operating within the soul by which we are regenerated

Thus, both Strong’s and Thayer’s define the Greek word “sperma” as a natural seed, which refers to a human’s biological offspring. Paul’s usage of sperma, within the context of his statement, has him defining Jesus as a man born from the “seed” of David. Or, in other words, Paul was saying that Jesus was a biological descendant of David. This interpretation aligns perfectly with the next scriptures. These foretold of a time when the “seed” or “lineage” of David would sit upon David’s throne. This promised “seed” isn’t said to be a reincarnated David (though that idea, as ludicrous as it sounds, has been suggested), but is instead to be a man that is an incarnate descendant of David.

Psalms 89:3-4 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto DAVID MY SERVANT, (4) THY SEED will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

Psalms 89:35-36 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto DAVID. (36) HIS SEED shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

Psalms 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; OF THE FRUIT OF THY BODY will I set upon thy throne.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out OF THY BOWELS, and I will establish his kingdom.

The ESV translates this last passage as follows:

2 Samuel 7:12-13 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall COME FROM YOUR BODY, and I will establish his kingdom. (13) He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

There are two genealogies concerning Jesus’ lineage. Matthew gives the lineage of Joseph, and Luke lists the lineage of Mary (see Matthew 1; Luke 3). We know Jesus could not be of the “seed” of David through Joseph, since he was Jesus’ “supposed” father (see Luke 3:23). Therefore, Jesus’ lineage to David must come through His mother, Mary. Concerning Mary being the link to David’s “seed,” consider the following reference from the Summarized Bible:

“Matthew gives Joseph’s genealogy—Luke gives Mary’s. Luke does not say Heli ‘begat’ Joseph. Joseph was his son-in-law. If Jesus was the son of Joseph, as some claim, He is forever barred from the throne, being a descendant of Coniah who was cursed, that none of his line might have the throne. Jesus was accordingly conceived by the Holy Ghost in Mary, Mary’s father being a descendant of David through another line.”

Therefore, this promise could not fall to any descendant of Coniah (see Jeremiah 22:28-30). Though it is true that Jesus’ mother, Mary, is biblically of David’s lineage; she did not meet all the Messianic prophecies and was thus disqualified from being this prophesied “seed.” Therefore, someone else who was to be born – physically – from the “seed “of” David’s body had to fulfill that promise.” Luke 3:23-38 gives the physical lineage of Jesus. This lineage proves Jesus descended from David’s “seed.” It also proves that His lineage is not traced through the rejected lineage of Coniah. However, to literally be of David’s “seed” and his “lineage,” Jesus would need to have inherited Mary’s flesh. As a result, Jesus would have to have been biologically related to both Mary and to her forefather, David. The Bible says that Jesus did fulfill these stipulations, and as a result, became the rightful heir of the throne of David. This point is the focus of these verses:

Acts 2:30-31 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, (31) he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of THE CHRIST, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, my steadfast, sure love FOR DAVID.

Acts 13:34 And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way, "'I will give you the holy and sure blessings OF DAVID.'

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ COMETH OF THE SEED OF DAVID, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, THAT OF THE FRUIT OF HIS LOINS, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Acts 13:22-23 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will. (23) OF THIS MAN'S SEED hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE OF THE SEED OF DAVID ACCORDING TO THE FLESH;

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that JESUS CHRIST OF THE SEED OF DAVID was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

It is the consistent testimony of Scripture, starting from the earliest Gospel tradition, that Jesus is a son of David:

Mark 10:46-48 And they came to Jericho: and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging. (47) And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou SON OF DAVID, have mercy on me. (48) And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.

Acts 2:25-31 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: (26) Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: (27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (28) Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. (29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. (30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that OF THE FRUIT OF HIS LOINS, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; (31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ OF THE SEED OF DAVID was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Upon hearing from a preacher friend of mine that some Christians believe Jesus was not a human descendant of David, one Rabbi commented: “I would love to debate such people on the subject of Jesus being the true messiah. If they say he is not a human descendant, then I could destroy their argument that says he was the true messiah.” This Rabbi knew that the scriptures teach, without question, the necessity of the Messiah being from the human lineage of David. Without this lineage, Jesus would be a false Messiah.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Sean, you're not even on the list of credible debaters. Your inept attempts at discussing anything biblical is woefully pathetic.

Sean, do everyone--including you--a favor and stop posting here and anywhere else. Instead, since you always (your claim) show visitors your house before introducing them to your wife, you should spend your time as a Realtor.

You are a this and that Sean, also, I do not agree with the exact wording of the scriptures you posted so far, so there..... Lol

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sean, Truther is the glowing moron over on CARM.
I didn't comment on any other posters. You are the horse's rear end, to think you can negate my observation of your pyschotic behavior on the two forums by posting a CARM thread against eachatology. CARM is a plethora of arguments on every single topic. Even threads where CARM members stomp you into dust, or just have you on ignore. Sean, you're just a bad joke.

Sean, you are a blankety blank blank blank blank and don't you forget it... LOL

[Sean]

Meanwhile I refuse to answer Sean's scriptures.