Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Oh, so Jesus just needed to wait 2,000 plus years for psychiatry to help. So, the Demonic would of been restrained and given heavy meds. The boy foaming at the mouth throwing himself in the fire, would of been taken to the third floor? What you are proposing is that in time as new developments are introduced the Bible "CURES" will be seen as antiquated. Relics of an ancient backward time, where men like Jesus didn't wrongly believed mental health issues to be caused by a evil spirit. When what we know now it is caused by other factors. Proving that Jesus wasn't who He said HE was.

You are misrepresenting what I am trying to convey. The same Jesus the healed the demoniac and the boy throwing himself into the fire also healed people of their physical infirmities. Still, I don't want to compare these two individuals to people today who have mental illness. There are plenty of people who suffer with mental illness who are not demon infested.

We have doctors that help in the treatment of physical infirmities, why not acknowledge doctors who help in the treatment of mental illness.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

JD, that isn't a fact. What objective biological science determines a chemical imbalance? Low T? Anyone who tells you that low T causes bipolar, PTSD, Schizophrenia, or depression don't know anything about how the hormone works. Still, what is the test to determine a chemical imbalance? Bro, I believe you to be honest. Truly I do, so I believe I can get a decent answer from YOU.

The best I can find for specific BIOLOGICAL PROOF of mental illness is this article from last year. The article clearly admits the current limitations in mental health treatment while elaborating on new research.


"Armed with her previous research, Bahn and her team detailed a panel of blood biomarkers in individuals who have an increased risk of schizophrenia but have no visible symptoms yet. The test, says Bahn, can accurately predict whether someone will “develop schizophrenia over the next two years.”


"Despite these exciting preliminary findings, there aren’t yet any biological tests for mental illness widely used in medical practice."


http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/09/b...ss-493955.html

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I already dealt with that. That isn't psychiatry that would deal with those issues. Remember Psychiatry causes brain injuries, LITERALLY. Look up frontal lobotomy, and shock therapy.

At least we both acknowledge that these related are valid medical condition that affect the mental health of the sufferers.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Bro, then if what you say is true, then you could TEACH us through the Bible how to get it done. You instead are standing in a CULTURE and telling us that we are wrong, because the CULTURE says different. You cannot show us with the Bible how our Holy Book steers us towards the conclusions you want us to be at.

You are right. All I can tell you is that in my OPINION, physical illness and mental illness should be looked at in the same way because every scriptural reference to dispel mental health treatments can be used to dispel physical illness treatments.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Bro, I watch my mother's type 2 diabetes go away totally, where she stopped using medication. Because she changed diet.

That works for some people, but not all people

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Diabetes and mood swings aren't even in the same room.

I agree, but mental illness is much more than mood swings.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

JD, PLEASE go an look at specialists who are secular, and highly criticize psychiatry.

I haven't done that yet, but I will.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Bro, you are just conditioned through your culture to ACCEPT head shrinking voodoo as real medicine.

I've seen mental health medicines work for some people. Even the most skilled doctors, in any field, on their best days, still PRACTICE medicine. Some stuff is set in stone, some stuff isn't. We accept this when it comes to physical illness, why not mental illness?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Giving psychotropic medication to children is POISON.

I agree with that and I also agree with the notion that as a general population, Americans are becoming over-medicated. There is big money to be made in on-going treatment.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

God is only reliable 50% of the time? 45% 75% How long do you wait before you 86 God, and try something else? Where in the Bible does it so from Genesis to Revelation where we are to opt out if we rub the lamp and He doesn't come up with the puff of smoke. Bro, you have cancer, get it taken care of, because there is a plethora of science to help you backed with objective biological evidence.

The same logic you are using here can be used for any and every other ailment. This is what I mean about wanting consistency.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But if you are too happy, if you are too sad, if you have mood swings which you blame on your other personality, you need the Holy Ghost.

There are people with physical illnesses that need the Holy Ghost as well.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Consistency? OK Psychiatry is QUACKERY, Medical science like broken legs, heart disease, cancer research, brain injuries, bad teeth, eye sight, isn't quackery. CHEMICAL IMBALANCE in the brain isn't found by a blood test.

This article is from last year.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/09/b...ss-493955.html

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Always strikes me funny, how people who want consistency in other's religions have zero in their own lives.

I am not going to start exchanging pot shots with you. We do not have to have this discussion if you don't want to be civil.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, PTSD is the same as a pregnant woman, or a woman going through menopause? What happens when a man has low T? I would love to be having this conversation in person so I would see what your immediate answer was, without Internet instruction. But, what is your hormone imbalance? Also why do some psychotropic cause lactation in males?

I'll be honest, the most I know about low testosterone is limited to what I've seen on infomercials for supplements.

As for trauma and PTSD... here's a short and rather simplified explanation of the chemistry of PTSD:

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Bro, it doesn't matter what titled he had, using some poor individual who you don't know. Really doesn't help your argument. I don't know the guy, you don't know the guy. So out of respect for his family. We will use what we do know. The Bible.

Not once have we used his name and if sincere conversations like this had happened while he was with his family, he might still be with his family. It would be too convenient to leave this anonymous but real case out of this discussion because it cuts to the heart of this discussion:

Mental illness is a real illness that can be instantly cured by God or treated by doctors and medicines with many making a full recovery from their mental illness diagnosis.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Show where we as ministers are to get people to a psychiatrist? You want consistency? Well give me some, how can we find all the going to a psychiatrist to for help in the scripture? Because if you weren't in the psychiatrist culture we have in this country, and you only had book, chapter, and verse. We wouldn't be holding this debate.

The same logic can be used against going to a physical doctor.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Are you guessing? Did he tell you this?

He didn't tell me anything. I just know how mental illness works.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you go on Trinitarian forums and stick it to them? JD, there are Trinitarians who are like acid on psychiatry. Hindus, Muslims, bro, this isn't just one group you happen to have issues with.

Bro, I PLAINLY acknowledged this-- criticism of mental health treatments are not unique to OP's.

I have joined other forums, but I've been here so long... I guess I'll leave eventually...

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Then do you hold the secular mindset? Just trying to be consistent.

The mindset that I hold is that GOD IS ABLE TO HEAL ALL OF OUR DISEASES and that He has given and is giving mankind wisdom and skill to treat many health conditions that plague mankind.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's a bit dramatic, but JD, why don't you have a little faith that JESUS can do what He said HE CAN DO.

I have plenty of faith in Jesus Christ to do what HE SAID HE CAN DO, but I won't act like illnesses do not exist and if it is acceptable to get treatment for physical conditions, then it should be acceptable to get treatment for mental conditions as well.

Honestly, I do not understand the disconnect.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Bro, you need to look up the word consistency.

I'll get to it.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The only surgeries performed by psychiatrists was called lobotomy.

There are plenty of formerly accepted medical practices that are CLEARLY not acceptable today.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But we can measure hormone imbalances and correct them without go to the VooDoo lounge. Obviously you don't know anything about Testosterone imbalance.

I found this interesting regarding stress and the brain...

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Interesting.

Very, interesting.

JD, so if we disagree with you and the world around you. We don't really understand?

Please don't read disrespect into my statement. There are things that people will not understand until they experience it for themselves or witness someone very close to them go through.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Want to know why the Bible on this subject is so lacking? Because your side cannot produce how Jesus and the apostles would include psychiatry into their work. Demoniac would of been physically restrained, which the culture at that time did. But what would of been different they would of brought him to almost a comatose state through psychotropics.

This same logic can be applied to the treatment of physical conditions.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

JD, so if we don't agree with you, we really haven't had it all hit home?

How can a person who says that mental illness is not a real condition have that mindset when they don't believe they have ever had any experience with a person who was genuinely mentally ill without being possessed by demons?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Good, so for consistency sake we will wait for what we are saying to hit home with you. Right?

I hope you are not misunderstanding me. Can God? Yes He Can. Does God? Not always-- UNLESS we understand healing to be something other than the complete absence of a medical condition. I hit on that earlier.

Just because Holy Ghost filled person A gets sick and keeps the sickness for the duration of their earthly life does not mean the scriptures are contradictory.

[JoeBandy]

I have witnessed many times a person defiant about a subject, in the way EB is about this, have the same issue with themselves or a dear loved one later in life.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That coming from you is funny. Aquila you are no one to talk.

There you go, trying to goad me back into a personal confrontation. None of us have been doing this to one another while you were away. Why are you doing this?

So, what is achieved? Therefore this is an Apostolic forum, and it mainly deals with the Bible. END OF GAME.[/QUOTE]

It's an Apostolic discussion forum. And you created this thread with a premise. Not everyone agrees with your premise. I'm sure you can process that, right?

So what we are doing is "group?"

Sharing our experiences in light of the Scriptures and discussing different opinions, experiences, and points of view.

Do you like those labels?

No.

Should that be mocked?

Sure, why not. You're going to mock it anyway. You already called her a prop and more. I think at this point, I can take it.

You don't do that with others, they just place you on ignore. You in turn give them the thumbs up.

I've made it a rule to generally not ignore anyone. If they wish to ignore me, that's fine. If I give them a thumbs up, it might be because I agree, or perhaps I don't agree, but I can understand where they are coming from.

You don't return the favor, you got issues, but your issues you blame on a label from the DSM.

We've had a rather civil conversation and sharing of opinion prior to your return. Perhaps I've ceased returning the favor to YOU.

The most part, you have a good amount of people agreeing with you. Another thing that is how I feel about psychiatry. It is quackery, there is no one else posting that? I believe psychiatry takes away from the Gospel and doesn't add to the Gospel. it also does more harm than good. Also that isn't being discussed in much length here. So, you are looking like a total advocate of psychiatry. Therefore if i say something disparaging against psychiatry you take it as personal. Don't. It I hit you with a quip, take it like a man you claim to be. Because after the days I have not been posting I sure got a dose this morning from people who had been reading your material.

I have no problem with anyone sharing an opinion. However, you tend to speak as though your opinion is absolute truth and fact. For example, "I think EMDR is quackery.", vs., "EMDR is quackery." If EMDR relieved symptomatic issues that were driving you to contemplate suicide... wouldn't you take the second statement far more seriously?

You taking my childhood beatings, one in particular of me being burned on a lit stove while I soiled myself. Then with all the power you can summon you danced back and forth with it. So, let's continue the discussion, but please allow me to hold the opinion of you that is lower than dirt. You can hold the same for me. It is all good. The difference is, that I believe you can one day find Jesus Christ and the power of the Cross. You on the other hand wouldn't wish that for me.

If you're opinion of me is that I'm lower than dirt, that's fine. But I find it that you come to that opinion because I ceased trying to reason with you and only started to try to respond to you as you were responding to me. lol

Aquila, stop playing the victim. You can't use that tactic anymore.

Oh, I'm not a victim. I was making an observation. My statement was:

But here you come and now aggression, anger, and divisiveness is dripping from your posts, thereby poisoning the conversation.

Count your personal attacks in your responses so far if you don't believe me.

You acquainted a spanking with being dragged to a lit stove? Bro, my position is that you need to seek Christ, and His Cross. Be immersed in the Holy Ghost like the Bible says, not like EB says, forget EB. He doesn't matter because you killed already. I'm talking about the Bible, show me Bible for sending someone to some far out treatments.

Again, I find it quite telling that you're position on my statements is such, when my statements were only me trying to return the same brazen, harsh, and lack of empathy that you were displaying towards myself and others.

Bro the problem isn't healing, the problem is dealing, and the problem is that yit is either your WILL or His WILL. It isn't about getting dressed up inside or outside. It is about getting cleaned out through the Holy Ghost.

Then why haven't you done that?

Failed marriage, thoughts of suicide, but there are people in all religions who have overcome those things. Not one needed psychiatry. Not one. So, I have friends who are Orthodox Jews, same story, totally good, all is well in their lives. No psychiatry, Hindus, Muslims, the same. So, are their religions also an option? They would tell YOU, yes. I would tell you no.

I'm not saying issues like these can't be overcome without psychiatry. I'm saying that while it appears to work for some, it doesn't work for others. And so many have turned to psychiatry to find relief. That's all. It appears to me that you're saying that if a Hindu can over come PTSD without psychiatry, EVERYONE, should be able to do so. However, we're not all the same. There are most likely just as many Hindus, if not more, who returned to psychiatry. What works for one may not work for another for innumerable reasons. You have to realize, we're not all the same.

Then Aquila you are back to square one. If it isn't his job to tell you to seek a shrink, then he will have no one asking to go to a shrink if he is doing his job.

Okay. And what if someone was contemplating seeing a counselor, and they approached him with the idea wanting him to pray for them to find a good counselor. Would he tell them NOT to seek counseling?

Are you at work?

On lunch. But I am the Admin and if my work and reporting is done, I'm kinda on call and have some down time. It's feast or famine. Being Friday it's kinda slow around here. I'm just getting off my lunch break, I'll have another break coming up in a couple hours. Are you at work?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

I have witnessed many times a person defiant about a subject, in the way EB is about this, have the same issue with themselves or a dear loved one later in life.

You probably don't realize it, but what you are doing right there is witchcraft 101.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You probably don't realize it, but what you are doing right there is witchcraft 101.

"You reap what you sow," is not witchcraft-- but I hope no one has to deal with mental illness and I am sure JB is not wishing mental illness on EB.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

I have witnessed many times a person defiant about a subject, in the way EB is about this, have the same issue with themselves or a dear loved one later in life.

Originally Posted by Esaias

You probably don't realize it, but what you are doing right there is witchcraft 101.

Esaias,
Have you ever seen this to be true in someone's life though? Where someone is dogmatic about a certain issue only to be challenged later on with that same issue?

How is acknowledging that phenomenon an example of witchcraft?