More on Skirts

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, do you disagree that the OT (including the Law) is profitable for doctrine, or reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

Because my point was that while we're not bound by it as the Hebrews were, it is still of great value to guide us in our understanding.

Aquila, you mouth words, you memorize the lines, but you don't believe ft meat is greasy.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

6 If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:
7 But thou shalt in any wise let the dam go, and take the young to thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days.

Nope, never done that.

11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

I'm good on that one, too.

Perhaps you need reading glasses?

Contacts, maybe? Magnifying glass? Old fashioned spectacles?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let's say that a gay or lesbian couple moves in down the block from me. Let's say they get married. I don't know them. I might never even speak to them. How does that effect me? And that opens up another can of worms, what about all the other "sins" taking place throughout the entire neighborhood? Unless a persons behavior actually endangers my life, my liberty, or my property, is it my business? In addition, how does my behavior with my wife in private affect them?

So now the word gay means nothing more than men who fornicate with other men? How flipped out. Aquila gay "and" lesbian? A lesbian can't be gay? You must be a basket case debating in public. That's if you even would attempt to do that.

James 2:3
“And ye have respect to him that weareth THE GAY clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:”

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Aquila, you mouth words, you memorize the lines, but you don't believe ft meat is greasy.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So now the word gay means nothing more than men who fornicate with other men? How flipped out. Aquila gay "and" lesbian? A lesbian can't be gay? You must be a basket case debating in public. That's if you even would attempt to do that.

James 2:3
“And ye have respect to him that weareth THE GAY clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:”

See, they had problems with this in the first century too. lol

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

Yes culture can take a garment and change it. Has not culture changed since Adam and Eve? So with culture changes so has clothing.

It is becoming cultural to wear less clothing, is that all right with God? It was not culturally acceptable in our country to let our daughters go out in clothes showing a lot of skin 75 years ago, but today it is. Culture does not set the bar for morality.

You will never convince me that homosexuality is rampant because of pants on women! Also, I don't understand why you brought up sodomy.

I am not saying that pants on women is directly the cause of Sodomy. I was saying that the blurring of the male and female roles in our country has much to do with homosexuality and transgenderism. I never said that pants on women was the cause homosexuality, but that it is a symptom of a perversing culture. Understand that the enemy takes over little by little and not all at once. The sins of 1930's and 40's gave way to the 1950's-70's, and that gave way to the 80's and 90's, and now we have a mainline culture who think you have the right to decide whether you are male and female.

I am not certain about this issue for others, but the ladies in my family could not in good conscious wear pants. I have come up this way from my youth and for me it is truth, but for others who have been brought up in the middle of secular culture, it will be something that they will have to decide for themselves. It is God who will one day judge the outward deeds and inward works of the heart.

PS I would rather try to blend with a church culture with old timey values then mixing with a world that is lost.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

You know how many times I posted the list of abominations?
You never replied on which ones were abrogated. The OT is the Bible which Jesus, the apostles, and the early church used. My question to you is, were did they abrogate abominations and sins?

[good samaritan]

It used be culturally unacceptable:
to use profanity
to tatoo and pierce our bodies
to smoke tobacco
to be given to alcohol
to wear things in public that reveal the body

Although, many people did these things, it was frowned upon by society in our country. The Bible doesn't explicitely name theses things, but are they right? Culture is decaying, Do we continue to lay down our standards because the Bible doesn't give a explicit scripture on these topics?

The church was given authority to bind and to loose. As culture developes new avenues in wich to be immoral we must have biblical principles to which we can apply to the many new inventions to sin.

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It used be culturally unacceptable:
to use profanity
to tatoo and pierce our bodies
to smoke tobacco
to be given to alcohol
to wear things in public that reveal the body

Although, many people did these things, it was frowned upon by society in our country. The Bible doesn't explicitely name theses things, but are they right? Culture is decaying, Do we continue to lay down our standards because the Bible doesn't give a explicit scripture on these topics?

The church was given authority to bind and to loose. As culture developes new avenues in wich to be immoral we must have biblical principles to which we can apply to the many new inventions to sin.

I really don't know how to explain myself. I believe sin is sin. However I believe cultural settings can dictate what would be considered modesty, male vs female, etc... Also what scripture are you referring to about the church given authority to loose and bind?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It is becoming cultural to wear less clothing, is that all right with God? It was not culturally acceptable in our country to let our daughters go out in clothes showing a lot of skin 75 years ago, but today it is. Culture does not set the bar for morality.

No, the Scriptures do teach:

1 Timothy 2:9
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

I am not saying that pants on women is directly the cause of Sodomy. I was saying that the blurring of the male and female roles in our country has much to do with homosexuality and transgenderism. I never said that pants on women was the cause homosexuality, but that it is a symptom of a perversing culture. Understand that the enemy takes over little by little and not all at once. The sins of 1930's and 40's gave way to the 1950's-70's, and that gave way to the 80's and 90's, and now we have a mainline culture who think you have the right to decide whether you are male and female.

Every world culture is "perverted". Ours was strongly influenced by Puritans and other Christians, so we've had the benefit of a Christian influenced culture. But even prior to our time we had slavery. Slavery was a hideous abomination in ways beyond the mere enslavement of our fellow man. Since slaves were not considered "human beings" they were subject to physical abuse, sexual abuse, and outright cruelty, without a second thought, even by "Christians" of that day. Prostitution was legal in the United States before being prohibited. This fed a sex trade long before the 1900's. Incest was also common. As was physical domestic abuse, which was legal in some states up until the 1900's. All these things were a part of our culture from the beginning. It was just hidden in the shadows, kept in the closets, and sometimes even covered up by churches.

I try not to get all caught up in the whole "my goodness the culture is becoming so perverse" thing, because our culture has never been exemplary. Homosexuality was just as common then as now, only it was not made so public. I do have hope though. Before God can heal and address anything, He often has to get it out in the open. He has to have it shouted from the rooftops. We're talking more about it now than ever before. And, if we keep our discourse civil, loving, and compassionate, those in bondage to this sin who are seeking salvation can more easily approach us and be ministered to. God is in charge, and God works all things for our good, and so this seemingly unstoppable opening up about this sin may very well be the will of God. It's midnight at the masquerade and God is pulling America's mask off, and underneath there are sinners (big shock, huh?). We have homosexuals, the gender confused, the sex addicts, abusers, alcoholics, drug addicts, extortion, greed, adultery, fornication, murder, liars, lovers of money, and the list could go on and on. Instead of dishing up "hatred" we need to dish up "healing". Instead of confrontation and anger, we need love and compassion. Frankly, our politics have turned us against the very people we're called to love and to heal. Many, if not most, homosexuals have suffered sexual abuse, sexual/emotional pain from failed relationships, lack of role models, lack of fathers and mothers in the home, physical abuse, and the list can go on and on. They have been ostracized by their families, friends, churches, work, etc. and they are pushing for acceptance so hard... because they think it will heal that pain. It won't. Frankly, if they got everything they are desiring today, they'd still be just as depressed and hurting as they were yesterday. Then tie in the possibilities of biological factors and predispositions to homosexual tendencies. It becomes a huge complex mess that frankly... only God can sort out.

I love gay people. They are precious in God's sight. No, He isn't pleased with their sin, but while we were yet sinners, God loved us. And I believe that God loves them too. I believe that God's grace is sufficient enough to carry the homosexual across the finish line. I believe that love covers a multitude of sins. I believe no one is hopeless unless the Spirit specifically impresses upon me to give up on an individual. God wants to see them saved and filled with His Spirit more than anyone can imagine. I believe that God would rather have them born again and struggling, born again and falling down to get up over and over again, even born again in a gay marriage (legally speaking), than lost in the wilderness and filled with a hurt and bitterness that drives them away from the cross... because there is a lion roaming that wilderness seeking to devour them.

I know, I didn't used to talk like this. I used to beat the drum against them as though they were the enemy. But I found that not only did it drive more gays away from the cross, it also drove a watching world away from the cross. Many straight people who are lost pay close attention to how we treat gay people. And they are often offended and feel that if what they are seeing is "Christianity", they want no part of it. Many are discovering that they have friends, family, and loved one's who are gay, and our rhetoric on the issue has alienated them all from the church.

I'm not saying we should just willy-nilly accept anything and everything. Please don't misinterpret me. I'm saying... sinners are sinners. And they need God. I believe that God will have no joy in seeing any of them go to Hell. I believe that God is screaming to the gay community in the Spirit, saying, "COME TO ME! LET US REASON TOGETHER! THOUGH YOUR SINS BE AS RED AS SCARLET, THEY SHALL BE WHITE AS SNOW! I LOVE YOU! DON'T ALIENATE YOURSELVES FROM ME, I'M YOUR ONLY HOPE!" But they can't come to Him... if we're driving them away. We need patience, compassion, understanding, and grace. I'd treat a gay couple the same as I'd treat a couple in an adulterous second marriage. Both marriages are "sin". But wherever there is love, I'd like to pray there is something to be redeemed, even in the midst of imperfect circumstances. And God can work out the finer details and lead them and guide them as they learn the Word and are led through the Spirit.

Also, I've learned that a lot of my own anxiety, anger, and negative emotions were robbing me of my joy and peace. And I discovered that it was all based on my desire to try to CONTROL THE LIVES AND BEHAVIOR OF OTHERS. I have learned that much peace and balance can come from simply allowing people to simply be. I have no desire to control gay people, shame them back into the closet, or control who they marry. You know, ultimately, they answer to God and not me anyway. I'm here to teach and share the path of Jesus, and what God intends for us on this path. I found that leaning on mercy and grace, is all I can do. I'd rather stand before God and be told that I was too loving and too forgiving, than to stand before Him and be told that I wasn't loving and forgiving enough.

I am not certain about this issue for others, but the ladies in my family could not in good conscious wear pants. I have come up this way from my youth and for me it is truth, but for others who have been brought up in the middle of secular culture, it will be something that they will have to decide for themselves. It is God who will one day judge the outward deeds and inward works of the heart.

Amen. I can respect that. Very lovingly put.

PS I would rather try to blend with a church culture with old timey values then mixing with a world that is lost.

I understand where you're coming from. In whatever you do, remember this: Follow Jesus, not Christians. The only thing more worldly than Hollywood is, religion. And most of what is known as "old time values" is just mid 20th century form and fashion.

"Old Time Religion"

Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
It's good enough for me.

It makes me love everybody
Makes me love everybody
Makes me love everybody
It's good enough for me.