Institutionalized Church / Your Input

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Of course they can...but he will never use you to correct them.

One thing I never do is tell God how He can or can't do things....

My dad isn't a pastor but a lay minister. The pastor of his church had given up and was frustrated and throwing in the towel and had decided to leave. Dad didn't show up to convince him to stay...He wished him well but as he visited that last time the annointing came upon my dad and he ministered to that pastor and DID correct him...He sat there head hung...humble because my dad was speaking the truth and received it. It was the truth. Was my dad out of line? God didn't send anyone that outranked that pastor...He sent a VERY fallible saint.

That pastor and his family stayed and have been blessed greatly and they don't regret staying.

Dude if I'm in the wrong, I don't care WHO God sends to set me straight. It's not about the level of authority of the messenger, but it's about whether or not it's truth! TRUTH is the ultimate authority that we must obey not whether someone outranks us.

With that logic we create popes who cannot be corrected or will not receive correction.

By that logic Moses shouldn't have been able to correct God Almighty and stand in the way when God was going to destroy Israel.

"I don't think thats a good idea, God."

"WHO ARE YOU TO CORRECT ME???"

But that's not how it happened...God saw reason and was merciful.

I think if God Himself can be swayed from His anger and wrath by mortal man,who are we to declare arrogantly who we will not listen to?

Did God stay His hand because Moses outranked Him? No...It was because Moses made a good point. If God is open to intercession and reason, shouldn't we?

With our pride and lack of humility we refuse correction and because of our insecurity we demand that we are not to be questioned.

God is not insecure.

I can't afford to listen to only those that I like or agree with....That's called an echo chamber and that's not profitable to us.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Amanah

there is nothing wrong with fervent prayer

ADJECTIVE
having or displaying a passionate intensity:
synonyms: impassioned · passionate · intense · vehement · ardent · sincere · [more]
hot, burning, or glowing.

And if I had disdain for my pastor and church I would either pray thru it or move on.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Really? You're telling me God isn't capable of delivering a message through me to correct a pastor?

Which God do you serve? You, my friend, need to put God back on the pedestal.

That depends.

If your a trouble maker or he sees you as a trouble maker? Someone who isn't looking out for the church or his best interests? Then I would have to say, no way. A lot of people would like to carry the mail, but sadly they do a really bad job of it. Also agendas, attitudes, all sorts of issues can kill the message, and blow the credibility of the messenger. We all see ourselves as noble and ready to ride out to slay dragons, but in reality we are just killing windmills.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That depends.

If your a trouble maker or he sees you as a trouble maker? Someone who isn't looking out for the church or his best interests? Then I would have to say, no way. A lot of people would like to carry the mail, but sadly they do a really bad job of it. Also agendas, attitudes, all sorts of issues can kill the message, and blow the credibility of the messenger. We all see ourselves as noble and ready to ride out to slay dragons, but in reality we are just killing windmills.

Good post. I agree 100% with everything except perhaps the last sentence. I am not sure I exactly know what you mean there.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by CC1

Good post. I agree 100% with everything except perhaps the last sentence. I am not sure I exactly know what you mean there.

It's a reference to Don Quixote, the Man of the Mancha by Miguel de Cervantes. In the novel, the main character, Don Quixote, is a bit mad and not together mentally, and rides his horse chasing windmills thinking he is slaying giants.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_at_windmills

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by CC1

Good post. I agree 100% with everything except perhaps the last sentence. I am not sure I exactly know what you mean there.

Just like the senile Spaniard, some individuals view themselves on a special mission.

So, in their own mind anything they do is justified by their supposed mission.
The correcting of the eldership, usually comes later. By the time they make it to his office door. They had already ran their lance through a couple of the saints.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Just like the senile Spaniard, some individuals view themselves on a special mission.

So, in their own mind anything they do is justified by their supposed mission.
The correcting of the eldership, usually comes later. By the time they make it to his office door. They had already ran their lance through a couple of the saints.

I was familiar with the origin of "tilting at windmills" but wasn't sure of the application here. Thanks for the clarification on what you meant.