The Brook Kidron and the Kidron Valley

votivesoul · #1 12-02-2016, 01:31 AM

I am interested to see if anyone can provide some enlightenment about the Kidron Valley and the Brook Kidron.

I had a dream a few weeks ago, that seemingly (to me, that is) was about this place near Jerusalem.

I am withholding the dream because I'm not looking for an interpretation. Rather, I care to learn about any insights into this location that you all might have.

So, if anyone would like to share something, I am happy to read.

Thanks in advance.

Praxeas · #2 12-02-2016, 03:51 AM

ISBE

Kidron, The Brook
(קדרון נחל, naḥal ḳidhrōn; in Joh_18:1 (the King James Version Cedron), ό χειμάῤῥους Κέδρων, ho cheimárrhous tṓn Kédrōn, according to the Revised Version margin, the last two words are to be considered as meaning “of the cedars.” The Hebrew word has been very generally accepted as from קדר, ḳādhar, “to become black,” but it is an attractive suggestion (Cheyne) that it may be a phonetic variation of גּדּרון, giddērōn, “a spot for enclosures for cattle,” of which latter there must have been many around the now buried caves which lay at the base of the cliffs around the spring Gihon):

1. Wady Sitti Miriam:
The Nachal Qidhron is the valley known today as the Wâdy Sitti Miriam, which lies between the eastern walls of Jerusalem and the Mount of Olives. It commences in the plateau to the North of the city, and after making a wide sweep Southeast, under the name Wâdy el Jôz (“Valley of the Walnuts”), passes South until level with the southeastern corner of the temple-area where its bed is spanned by an old bridge; here the bottom of the valley, 40 ft. beneath the present surface level, is 400 ft. below the temple-platform. From this point it narrows and deepens gradually, bending slightly West of South, and, after receiving the Tyropoeon valley, joins a little farther Southwest with the Valley of Hinnom to form the Wâdy en Nâr which winds on through the “wilderness of Judea” to the Dead Sea. Where the three valleys run together is a large open space filled with gardens (the &KING'S GARDENS, which see), which are kept irrigated all the year round by means of the overflow waters from the ‛Ain Silwân (see SILOAM). It is where the Hinnom valley runs into the Kidron that some would locate TOPHETH (which see). Except at the irrigated gardens, the ravine is a dry valley containing water only during and immediately after heavy rain, but in ancient times the rocky bottom - now buried beneath many feet of rich soil - must have contained a little stream from Gihon for at least some hundreds of yards. This was the “brook that flowed through the midst of the land” (2Ch_32:4). The length of the valley from its head to Bîr Eyyûb is 2 3/4 miles.

2. Traditions:
Since the 4th century AD, this valley has been known as the VALLEY OF JEHOSHAPHAT (which see), and from quite early times it was a favorite situation for interments (2Ki_23:4, 2Ki_23:6, 2Ki_23:12; 2Ch_34:4, 2Ch_34:5); it is by Moslem and Jewish tradition the scene of the last judgment, and was known to the Moslems in the Middle Ages as Wādy Jehannum; see GEHENNA. It is probable that the “graves of the common people,” where King Jehoiakim cast the body of the prophet Uriah, were here (Jer_26:23), and it has been suggested, with less probability, that here too may have been the scene of Ezekiel's vision of the “valley of dry bones” (Ezek 37; compare Jer_31:40).

3. The Fields of Kidron:
The Fields of Kidron (2Ki_23:4), though generally identified with the open, lower part of this valley, where it is joined by the Tyropoeon valley, may more probably have been in the upper part where the wide expanded valley receives the name Wâdy el Jôz; this part is actually on the road to Bethel.

4. Historical Associations:
The most dramatic scene associated with the Kidron is that recorded in connection with its earliest Scriptural mention (2Sa_15:23), when David, flying before his rebellious son Absalom, here stood on the Jerusalem side of the valley while all his adherents passed over. “And all the country wept with a loud voice, and all the people passed over: the king also himself passed over the brook Kidron ... toward the way of the wilderness.” The passing over this brook appears to have been viewed as the solemn abandonment of the Jerusalem territory (compare 1Ki_2:37). In 1Ki_15:13; 2Ch_15:16, we read that Asa burnt at the brook Kidron “an abominable image for an Asherab” which Maacah, his mother, had set up. In the reforms of Hezekiah, “all the uncleanness that they found in the temple of Yahweh” was carried by the Levites to the brook Kidron (2Ch_29:16); “All the altars for incense took they away, and cast them into the brook Kidron” (2Ch_30:14). This locality was again used in the reforms of Josiah when the king “brought out the Asherah from the house of Yahweh, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and beat it to dust, and cast the dust thereof upon the graves of the common people” (2Ki_23:6). The same treatment was given to the vessels made for Baal, the Asherah and the host of heaven (2Ki_23:4), and the two idolatrous altars of Manasseh (2Ki_23:12). Josephus (Ant., IX, vii, 3) states that Athaliah was slain in the valley of Kidron, but this does not quite tally with the account (2Ki_11:16). It was a valley associated with graves and the ashes of abominations, but it was prophesied that it should be “holy unto Yahweh” (Jer_31:40). Twice it is mentioned simply as “the valley,” naḥal (2Ch_33:14; Neh_2:15). Very different from these earlier scenes is the last Scriptural reference (Joh_18:1), when Jesus “went forth with his disciples over the brook Kidron” for His last hours of spiritual struggle and prayer before the turmoil of the end.

mfblume · #3 12-03-2016, 12:52 PM

I always think of this when I read of Kidron. I hardly ever do this, but Votive, I want to say you may get something for your experience out of this.

John 18:1-2 When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples. And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples.

Jesus experienced things paralleled by David. Kidron is the way to get to Gethsemane. Notice it's associated with Judas betraying Jesus.

Jesus crossed the Kidron Brook after He prayed in John 17 to enter a Garden where Judas betrayed him.

David's son, Absalom, was stealing the hearts of the people away from the King David. He was plotting to take over the Kingdom, and slowly succeeded in garnering the emotions and love of the people.

It was like Hell was taking over Jerusalem in Jesus' day, ready to kill Jesus, when Absalom caused David to leave the City, and in leaving he crossed KIDRON just like Jesus.

2 Sam 15:22-23 And David said to Ittai, Go and pass over. And Ittai the Gittite passed over, and all his men, and all the little ones that [were] with him. And all the country wept with a loud voice, and all the people passed over: the king also himself passed over the brook Kidron, and all the people passed over, toward the way of the wilderness.

Jesus said the hearts would sorrow as He went but it was necessary to prepare a place for us.

David's people wept as David left, also. And like Jesus, David passed over Kidron.

2Sam 15:24 And lo Zadok also, and all the Levites [were] with him, bearing the ark of the covenant of God: and they set down the ark of God; and Abiathar went up, until all the people had done passing out of the city.

Above we read THE ARK OF THE COVENANT was also taken across KIDRON. But David told Zadok to return it to Jerusalem because he would BE BACK.

2Sam 15:25 And the king said unto Zadok, Carry back the ark of God into the city: if I shall find favour in the eyes of the LORD, he will bring me again, and shew me [both] it, and his habitation:

Jesus left Jerusalem and crossed the Kidron brook, and entered the Garden of Gethsemane where Judas betrayed Him.

As David walked away from Jerusalem, up by way of the Mount of Olives, and he wept as he looked at the city.

2Sam 15:30 And David went up by the ascent of mount Olivet, and wept as he went up, and had his head covered, and he went barefoot: and all the people that was with him covered every man his head, and they went up, weeping as they went up.

Jesus wept also as He left Jerusalem.

Matt 23:37-38 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

And we read that He wept while atop Mount of Olives.

Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives,...

As David walked we read that a man from Saul's family cursed David and threw dirt at Him

2Sam 16:5-6: Shimei

Shimei called David down to the dirt.

But David let him be. So similar to Jesus when He was to be taken, they ripped his beard from his face, spit on Him, all the while 12 legions of angels were ready to throw all Jerusalem to hellfire.

But Jesus had to go and die, and he allowed the soldiers to take Him. And later David crossed Jordan. Absalom chased after him and crossed Jordan. Over the river of death, on the other side of Jordan, Jesus won a victory for all mankind.

David was chased by Absalom, and David's men arranged events so that Absalom's men were run into the woods, and the woods that day took more men in death than the sword. And Absalom himself met a strange death which isheds forth insight into the greatest Gospel message we will ever read in the entire Bible.

2Sam 18:9-10 And Absalom met the servants of David. And Absalom rode upon a mule, and the mule went under the thick boughs of a great oak, and his head caught hold of the oak, and he was taken up between the heaven and the earth; and the mule that [was] under him went away. And a certain man saw [it], and told Joab, and said, Behold, I saw Absalom hanged in an oak.

2Sam 18:14 Then said Joab, I may not tarry thus with thee. And he took three darts in his hand, and thrust them through the heart of Absalom, while he [was] yet alive in the midst of the oak.

On a tree, Absalom and all his power over the people was killed and defeated. Jesus Christ took sin and death and all Satan's Kingdom and on a tree, the old rugged cross, defeated all of it!!! The HEAD of Satan was caught by the work of the cross. The HEAD represents the authority and power of the devil. The heart of satan's kingdom itself was struck and defeated by three darts: Perhaps the Death, Burial and resurrection, that would all occur because of the cross. David even had a man similar to Judas, who was counsellor but followed Absalom to be Absalom's counselor, named Ahithophel.

Ahithophel betrayed David to Absalom. But circumstances changed so that Athithophel was defeated and here is what followed...

AHITHOPHEL

2Sam 15:31 And [one] told David, saying, Ahithophel [is] among the conspirators with Absalom. And David said, O LORD, I pray thee, turn the counsel of Ahithophel into foolishness.

2Sam 17:23 And when Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled [his] ass, and arose, and gat him home to his house, to his city, and put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died, and was buried in the sepulchre of his father.

"AHITHOPHEL" is interpreted in ENGLISH, "my brother is foolish"

How foolish! He was with the KING! And left the King for a usurper who was doomed to die... LIKE JUDAS. Judas, who had been Jesus treasurer held the treasure of the Priests who plotted against Jesus he hanged himself.

Matt 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Walk out on Jesus and betray Him, and join Satan's league, and though the devil will reward you with gold, it will be cursed, and you will die like a fool, backslidden and away from God.

AFTER THE BATTLE AGAINST ABSALOM, HAVING SEEN ABSALOM SLAIN ON A TREE, DAVID RETURNED TO JERUSALEM

2Sam 19:15 So the king returned, and came to Jordan. And Judah came to Gilgal, to go to meet the king, to conduct the king over Jordan.

2Sam 19:39 And all the people went over Jordan. And when the king was come over, the king kissed Barzillai, and blessed him; and he returned unto his own place.

DAVID CAME BACK TO JERUSALEM.

Kidron speaks of rejection and literally means a DUSKY PLACE. The sun is going down. A valley experience.

votivesoul · #4 12-06-2016, 12:22 AM

Thank you for sharing that, Mike. I really appreciate it. One of my personal topics of interest the last couple of years is King David, and how Jesus relates to him. While I knew both crossed the brook, I haven't taken the time to hash out all the connections pertaining to those crossings.

votivesoul · #5 12-06-2016, 12:34 AM

After Mike's reply, I am led to share the dream, for anyone who might be interested. All thoughts in response to it are welcome.

In the dream...

I was walking beside a small creek in the middle of the day. The creek was to my right, and seemed to be flowing near a city. There was a semi-steep embankment that led down to the creek. On the shores of the creek were amassed piles of garbage, trash, broken down large equipment, and etc. It looked a bit like a junkyard.

As I was walking past, I noted in the mud and sludge of the shore, in the middle of the piles of rubbish, the skeleton, particularly the skull, of what looked like a child, buried in the muck. Nearby, I saw another child, a girl, who was, covered in mud, head to toe, and was sitting in the middle of the trash and debris.

I rushed down to try and help her. When I got to her, she said "My master put me here three days ago, to punish me".

The dream skipped, and I had brought the girl home (she seemed to be about 12-13 years old). In the dream, my "home" was actually my mom's house in real life. I started getting a bath ready for this girl, and realized she was Jewish, and that I needed to assure her the bath I was drawing for her was "kosher".

After I made those assurances to her I excused myself so she could have some privacy, and went upstairs to the room that used to be my bedroom when I still lived at home.

I knelt down and began to pray for this girl. I began sobbing and wailing, travailing in the Spirit in tongues and intercession. I also prayed with understanding, and in the dream, I specifically remember calling out to God, addressing Him as "Yah".

Thus ends the dream. I woke up in that moment of prayer and travail.

Afterward, I prayed to the Lord about the dream, and the phrase "the brook kidron" came to mind. What the dream might mean, if anything at all, I have no idea.

But maybe one of you do???

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads, and/or replies.

Peace and God bless,

Aaron

mfblume · #6 01-03-2017, 11:27 AM

Check out 2 Kings 23

votivesoul · #7 01-04-2017, 02:42 PM

Thanks, Mike.

Quote:

4. And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the Lord all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.
5. And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.
6. And he brought out the grove from the house of the Lord, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.