The Spirit Realm

[shazeep]

The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings." (American Atheists)

on some level, recognizing a force is admitting to the existence of God, and gods; where one chooses to invest their faith is another matter, possibly.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Aquila

2 Kings 13:21 (KJV)
And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

Acts 19:11-12 (KJV)
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Was it a residual power in such relics, or did God perform the miraculous when the objects interacted with the people?

For example, Jesus made some clay and put it on a blind man's eyes and had him wash his face in a pool of water. He was then healed. Did the clay or the water of the pool heal the man, or did Jesus?

That's the difference here, as well, with the bones of Elisha and with the strips of cloth that came forth from Paul's body. The relics or anything in them, did anything. Rather, God did the doing.

Simon Magnus thought the Simon and John had some kind of resident power in their hands, when he saw people in Samaria receive the Holy Spirit after they touched people.

But the power to receive the Holy Spirit wasn't in Simon or John. It was in God alone.

To say more than this is to be superstitious, following after relics and icons from any so-called "holy man" we find ourselves wanting to believe in.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

[I
]The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings." (American Atheists)[/I]
on some level, recognizing a force is admitting to the existence of God, and gods; where one chooses to invest their faith is another matter, possibly.

Very good.

Refusing to recognize God (not gods) is to the atheist their expression of
God's non-existence; to the believer, however, the atheist's refusal is simply
a failure to submit or be subject to the highest authority.

El-ohim is the ONE who has ALL powers and authority.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Was it a residual power in such relics, or did God perform the miraculous when the objects interacted with the people?

I can only point to the text....

2 Kings 13:21 (KJV)
And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

Acts 19:11-12 (KJV)
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

The text clearly implies that there was power active in the bones and in the cloths. If there was such power, was it the power of the anointing that comes from God alone? Yes.

And no doubt, many miracles have been attributed to various items down through history. While we don't believe in venerating relics, perhaps there is a shred of ancient truth to every legend.

The idea of residual power/anointing isn't dogma. I believe in it. I've been places wherein you can "feel" the prayers prayed there, or worse, the evil performed there. You don't have to believe in it. However, I do.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Aquila, not to be mean, but I think this is another issue like those you have dabbled in before and realized were found wanting after time. Sabbath... etc.

You just are wrong here.

I'm not convinced that my point on the Sabbath was ever truly understood. People have a tendency to assume that one is either a Sabbath keeper or that they are not a Sabbath keeper. Very few can grasp that middle ground: one who believes that the Sabbath need not be kept (because we are not under the law), but that there is a blessing in rest itself (something God did command in the Sabbath observance). Therefore, observing the Sabbath becomes an admonition to a free people, who may partake or not, not a command of bondage. People kept trying to pigeon hole me into being some "Sabbath keeper". I was only trying to highlight the sacred rhythm of rest and the blessings therein.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm not convinced that my point on the Sabbath was ever truly understood. People have a tendency to assume that one is either a Sabbath keeper or that they are not a Sabbath keeper. Very few can grasp that middle ground: one who believes that the Sabbath need not be kept (because we are not under the law), but that there is a blessing in rest itself (something God did command in the Sabbath observance). Therefore, observing the Sabbath becomes an admonition to a free people, who may partake or not, not a command of bondage. People kept trying to pigeon hole me into being some "Sabbath keeper". I was only trying to highlight the sacred rhythm of rest and the blessings therein.

That's how I always looked at sabbath. Beneficial but not a command as such.