Scoffers on AFF - Page 20

shazeep · #**191** 09-20-2015, 08:26 AM

i think the present day Church might be compared to the Wandering, and we are just somewhere in the Sinai right now.

Sean · #**192** 09-20-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Hey everyone, Mike thinks that the HEAVENS in 2 Peter 3 is "REALLY" supposed to mean the JEWISH LAW of MOSES and the EARTH is supposed to mean the Jews themselves.....

Mike thinks Peter was "really" saying The Jewish law and the Jews were to pass away with fervent heat(in secret code)!!!!...LOL

He thinks it is supposed to mean this....

John Owen
"On this foundation I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state; for which I shall offer these two reasons, of many that might be insisted on from the text:-https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...QP-WMzj491Ry9A

Mike, can I insert your name here too?

Arphaxad · #**193** 09-20-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

ya, i really don't care about the "earth" thing--i won't argue that the earth will be destroyed by fire at some point. I am most interested in the "impact" thing.

When the Sun becomes a red giant star

Sean · #**194** 09-20-2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike thinks Peter was saying this....

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the JEWISH LAW OF MOSES shall pass away with a great noise, and the JEWS shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the LAW OF MOSES being on fire shall be dissolved, and the JEWS shall melt with fervent heat?

Mike, is this what you believe?

Sean · #**195** 09-20-2015, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Second Peter 3 & AD70
A Litmus Test for Hyper-Preterism?

"He sets forth the destruction of that cursed Nation and their City in those terms that Christ had done, Matt. 24. and that the Scripture doth elsewhere, Deut. 32.22,23.24. Jer. 4.23. namely as the destruction of the whole world, The heavens passing away, the elements melting, and the earth burnt up, &c. And accordingly speaks of a new heaven and a new earth, from Isa. 65.17. a new state of the Church under the Gospel among the Gentiles, when this old world of the Jews state should be dissolved." (John Lightfoot, Westminster Assembly Divine)...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...QP-WMzj491Ry9A

WOW folks, he actually thinks Peter was saying this!!!

Mike, do you agree with these guys?

Sean · #**196** 09-20-2015, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

More preterist imaginary reinterpretation of the words "heaven and earth"....

Introduction

In this article we examine II Peter 3:7-13 and decide that the heavens and earth that were marked for destruction involved considerably more than merely Old Testament Judaism, Jerusalem, and the temple.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...2e7J4wR0BzqE3A

Mike, is this what you believe also?

Sean · #**197** 09-20-2015, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

riginally Posted by Sean View Post
Basically, only, much vegetation, land animals and mankind were destroyed. It was a partial destruction of the living things.

Peter says it will be destroyed by fire next time....Nothing will survive this intense fire....

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.....

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up......

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Here is the end result of the earth being burnt up....

Rev 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The Fire of God will incinerate the old heaven and earth.QUOTE SEAN

Peter said that's what happens when Jesus comes. So how can there be a literal millennium AND THEN A NEW EARTH LATER, if the earth is gone out of existence and a millennium comes between that and the new earth a thousand years later?

The same way the earth perished in Noah's day was how it perishes at Christ's coming. PEOPLE ALONE DIED, not the planet. And the PEOPLE are the point in His coming as well, NOT THE PLANET.

How do futurists use 2 Peter 3 to point to the second coming as though the whole world and planet will perish by using Noah when only the PEOPLE perished?QUOTE MFBLUME

Mike, since you are involved and do not agree with what Peter seemingly said, please tell the viewers on AFF what Peter "REALLY" meant by this passage....

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Is this the Law, Jewish religion and the Jews being dissolved by fire?

Yes Mike, please do explain!

shazeep · #**198** 09-20-2015, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Yes Mike, please do explain!

So Sean, you are going to ignore the impacts of a preterist view v a posterist one, and torture Mike lawyer style? Wadr, you are the one who brought it up.

shazeep · #**199** 09-20-2015, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

When the Sun becomes a red giant star

quite possibly, ya. Or a meteor this week, who knows. But would either of these usher in the kingdom, which i guess is the posterist view? Is a chief impact of Pre v Post denying the kingdom of God that exists right now, and pushing it to some future date?

mfblume · #**200** 09-20-2015, 01:36 PM

Peter said the world perished in Noah's day. The world. That's the word he used. That word must be consistent in definition throughout the whole chapter. He did not say only life perished. He said world. So whatever he meant by world that is what we must believe the word means when we read it's destruction by fire.

It can't mean life in one verse but the planet in the next.