Alabama to eliminate marriage licenses (L)

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

When government allows the killing of children and the states do nothing, where is sanity? It was only a matter of time for the door to be opened wider for insanity to take over. Incestuous marriage is next.



What is the leadership of the church talking about these days?

The States can bypass the Federal Government and call for a convention of the States per Article 5 of the Constitution. Yet, it has NEVER been done in the history of the republic or empire.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

This is why I do not believe it is possible or desirable to “get the state out of the marriage business.” The primary business of the state should be providing justice. The primary business of the state should be providing justice. Children are the most vulnerable parties in any society. But children are particularly vulnerable in a society like ours that values autonomy and independence so highly. Children cannot be autonomous and independent. Adult society owes children an obligation in justice to provide institutional structures that protect their most basic interests. This is why it would be unjust to children for the government to attempt to “get out of the marriage business.” Providing justice to the vulnerable is precisely the business of the government. If it doesn’t perform that function, it has failed.

Sounds like the nanny State.

I don't think this is the proper role of GOVERNMENT. Government should protect the boarders and individual rights to life, liberty, and property. It isn't the government's job to raise children, insure that kids have toys, clothes, etc. That's for parents and private organizations. This philosophy is the core philosophy of the Welfare state. Divorces and the issues relating to them can be handled through private arbitration. Besides, Paul wrote:

I Corinthians 6:1-8 (ESV)
When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!

The truth is... Christians shouldn't be settling disputes in the world's court systems. As a result, this would imply that Christians shouldn't expect the government to be settling issues and disputes among Christians either.

[Rudy]

It looks like I wrote that but didn't. It sounds like a nanny state to me.

[TJJJ]

Polygamy is next, praise the Lord and grab another wife!

[aegsm76]

Yes, and then incest and the age of consent.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Polygamy is next, praise the Lord and grab another wife!

I have a question.

Is it the proper role of the GOVERNMENT to regulate people's private lives and personal associations? What if a Mormon or a Muslim wanted to marry more than one woman as their religious custom allows? And what if they had multiple women who were of the same religious beliefs? Does the GOVERNMENT have a right to tell them that their religious practice is "illegal"? In what ways does their polygamy endanger the life, liberty, or property of another? Honestly, I'm not sure if it is the proper role of the GOVERNMENT to regulate our private associations or religious practices unless they endanger the life, liberty, or property of another.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Yes, and then incest and the age of consent.

Marriage is a contract. One must be able to contract to marry. Therefore, one must be of legal age to contract to marry.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Marriage is a contract. One must be able to contract to marry. Therefore, one must be of legal age to contract to marry.

The age of consent is meaningless to perverts.

Who in the past would ever think that in some future date a girl under age could get an abortion without their parents being notified?

What about the rights of children? Sometime in the future I predict that someone will use these rights of children to advocate pedophile.

[Aquila]

Michigan is now on board...

Get Government Out of Marriage: Michigan Bill Would Nullify Both Sides in Practice
http://truthinmedia.com/alabama-sena...age-licensing/

[Aquila]

Commitment Ceremonies (Private Marriages)

A commitment ceremony is often very similar to many other kinds of weddings. The difference is that rather than being a legally binding ceremony, it is simply a public affirmation of a couples commitment to one another. commitment ceremony may be religious or secular, formal and traditional or loose and unstructured.

The makeup of the ceremony will depend on the rules of the officiant/house-of-worship and the couple's own preferences. However, generally speaking, these are the key elements:

•Greeting
The officiant welcomes guests to a celebration of the love and commitment between the couple. He or she will probably also say a few words about their relationship, or about marriage/commitment in general.

•Vows
This is the part where the couple declares their intent to be a committed or married couple. As in any kind of wedding, they will make promises about what that commitment means. They may promise to love in sickness and in health, in richness and poverty, till death do they part. Alternatively they may write their own vows.

•Readings/Music
A religious commitment ceremony will likely incorporate hymns and scripture readings that focus on love. (Many religious officiants will have a standard set of music and readings that are often used at commitment ceremonies and weddings.) A secular ceremony will usually also include music and readings about love, including poems, passages of literature, famous quotes, personal writing, pop songs, and classic wedding music.

•Exchange of Rings
The couple exchanges rings, and says a few words about what these rings mean. It may be
• With this ring, I thee wed
•I give you this ring as an expression of my love and commitment to you
•I'm honored to give you this ring as a symbol of the promises I've made to you today, and a proclamation to the world of the love I have for you.

Or anything else the couple wishes to say (working with their officiant to craft it - some religions may have rules regarding the ring ceremony)

•Pronouncement of Marriage
The officiant announces to the guests or congregation that the couple is now married (joined/united/wed - whatever word you prefer to say) and invites the couple to kiss. Some couples may not be used to kissing in public and thus may only have a very small kiss, or forgo this part altogether. Others will relish the moment to have the opportunity to kiss each other in front of their loved ones, proclaiming their love, and pride in having that love.

•Reception
Most couples will follow the ceremony with a reception of some kind. As with all weddings, there are no rules as to what this should be - it can be very formal and traditional, or as casual as a backyard picnic. It may include traditional wedding elements such as the first dance, cake cutting, and bouquet toss, or may just be an unstructured party. Generally the invitation will give some clues as to what it will be like (e.g. Please join us after the ceremony to toast the happy couple or A reception at the Springfield Country Club will immediately follow the wedding)

Christian marriages are based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul. Today many Christian denominations regard marriage as a sacrament, a sacred institution, or a covenant, but this wasn't the case before marriage was officially recognized as a sacrament at the 1184 Council of Verona. Before then, no specific ritual was prescribed for celebrating a marriage: "Marriage vows did not have to be exchanged in a church, nor was a priest's presence required. A couple could exchange consent anywhere, anytime." For it is written:

Mark 10:9 (ESV)
What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.

Then there is Quaker Marriage. The Quakers have a very unique understanding as it relates to marriage. George Fox, the founder of Quakerism, stated:

"For the right joining in marriage is the work of the Lord only, and not the priests' or the magistrates'; for it is God's ordinance and not man's; and therefore Friends cannot consent that they should join them together: for we marry none; it is the Lord's work, and we are but witnesses" ~ George Fox, 1669

Outsiders sometimes criticized Quaker couples for "living in sin" because they married each other without priests or ministers. Some couples choose to marry within the meeting without registering their marriages with the government, a tradition dating back to Quakerism's earliest days. If a couple later needs to prove that they are married, the Quaker wedding certificate signed by witnesses at the ceremony may be sufficient in some states, but not all.

Here are some excerpts from "Faith and Practice":

"Quaker Marriage Procedure"...

"Marriage is a sacred commitment of two people to love one another in faithful partnership with the expectation that the relationship will mature and be mutually enriching. Friends know that marriage depends on the inner experiences of the couple who marry and not on any external service or words. Thus, the ceremony in which the couple enter into this commitment is performed by the couple alone, in the presence of God, the families, and the worshiping community. Both the solemnity and the joy of the occasion are enhanced by its simplicity."

"While most Friends’ marriage ceremonies conform to civil law, couples who do not want, or are not eligible to contract a legal marriage occasionally ask for a ceremony of commitment or a wedding under the care of the Meeting. The Religious Society of Friends has long asserted its freedom to conduct under divine leading marriage ceremonies not conforming to civil law."

Here are some interesting thoughts about getting government out of marriage:

"My personal opinion is government shouldn’t be involved. The whole country would be better off if individuals made those decisions and it was a private matter." ~ Ron Paul

"The best approach is to make marriage a private matter. When we no longer believe that civilization is dependent on government expansion, regulating excesses, and a license for everything we do, we will know that civilization and the ideas of liberty are advancing." ~ Ron Paul

"Christian couples should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriage in their Family Bibles. So should we." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"As a minister, I cannot in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws. I also cannot marry someone with a marriage license because to do so I have to act as an agent of the State—literally! I would have to sign the marriage license, and I would have to mail it into the State. Given the State’s demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given it’s unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, it would be an act of idolatry for me to do so." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"Some couples choose to marry within the meeting without registering their marriage with the government, a tradition dating back to Quakerism's earliest days." ~ From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bishop Valentius (St. Valentine) Conducts Clandestine, Government Free, Weddings:

"A former Roman Emperor claimed that married men made poor soldiers, so banned young citizens from tying the knot. However, Bishop Valentine disagreed, and soon became notorious for his undergroud, clandestine weddings. He was soon jailed, and ultimately beheaded – though not before falling madly in love with the jailer's daughter. Legend has it that on the night of his execution, he passed his love a note which said 'from your Valentine'- and thus the tradition was born." ~ The History of Valentine's Day

A man and woman are joined together by God... NOT government:

"For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh." ~ God, Genesis 2:24

"What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” ~ Jesus, Mark 10:9 (ESV)

Christians are admonished not to subject one another to the courts of the unbelievers (that certainly would include civil divorce courts):

"3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?" ~ Paul, I Corinthians 6:3-7 (ESV)

As a 2007 New York Times op/ed points out, for centuries marriage was a private arrangement that didn't involve the licensing or the government...

“For most of Western history, they didn’t, because marriage was a private contract between two families. The parents’ agreement to the match, not the approval of church or state, was what confirmed its validity. For 16 centuries, Christianity also defined the validity of a marriage on the basis of a couple’s wishes. If two people claimed they had exchanged marital vows — even out alone by the haystack — the Catholic Church accepted that they were validly married."

Getting GOVERNMENT out of marriage will bring back the original meaning of the relationship and protect pastors and churches from lawsuits launched by gay rights activists.