McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You guys are Trinitarians.

I don't think HH is that offended.

All of this talk about, forgiveness, towards your brother, yet your post don't show the same forgiveness you expect HH to give. All I see is you defending not only a bad pastor, but the very position you aspire to.

Your comment about the early church not having leadership problems, because the apostles just went around and kicked butt. Only shows that you refuse to accept that the leadership of the early church did work together as servants but you think they welded control.

The more these debates go the more I see the ungodly spirits come out. Your statement "you guys are trinitarians" speaks volumes to me.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

HH, having no forgiveness for "Matty" will give you a front row seat in the lake of fire.

I'm not kidding, all the love, kisses, and best wishes for those of us in OP cannot mask your bitterness for the church you left.

I have a sad story, but I chose to suck it up, get over it, and move forward. Not to find other disgruntles so we can grab some crying towels, sobbing as we lick each other's wounds.

Paul prayed that a thorn in the flesh was to be removed, my opinion on that is found in the previous chapter where Paul is warning of false apostles who were causing issues in his churches. Yet, while Paul prayed God's only form of solace was to inform Paul that God's grace was sufficient. You have salvation HH? Holy Ghost moving through you because it is in you? Then that's great! Forgive them who spitefully use you, turn the other cheek? Or how about forgive them for they know not what they do? Do not render evil for evil? Sound good? Or should you just sue little Matty? Good grief, and they say the Muslims are terrorists? They just kill people, but Christians, they give the gift that keeps on killing. They go to social media, they put your picture on a website and call you a heretic. They eat the spleen of individuals who aren't even members of the same forum where they are eating the guy's lunch.

You know, the three Hebrew children went through a fire? Yet, when they came out on the other side you couldn't tell they were ever in a super hot furnace? Not even the smell of smoke.

Some people just need to, in the immortal (or immoral) words of Taylor Swift, just "Shake it off."

Or to remain biblical, do what Paul did when the viper attached itself to his hand - shake it off.

Bitterness and unforgiveness will send a person to hell.

I'll post again, Jesus' parable of the unforgiving servant who was forgiven much but refused forgiveness for a small amount owed him. He was brought back before the Lord of the servants and all his previously forgiven debts were put back on him.

A person can argue all they want, but if they refuse to forgive someone, when judgement day comes, all their previously remitted sins will be heaped back upon them and they will be judged and cast into hell.

[good samaritan]

I don't know personally anything about this pastor or church. If this pastor has done the things that he is accused of then he is simply reaping what he has sown. I don't agree with taking a bro. to law, but there is a uniqueness when a pastor has gotten so high that there is not anyone to pull his coat tail. If these accusations are true then nothing else may be done.

HH if I were you I would steer clear of this thread and do not allow bitterness to rule your life. I have seen some pastors who were as you described, but I stayed away. I pray for them. We speak of forgiveness, but that is easy to say when it isn't something that is affecting us. You will have to make the effort to bury the hatchet.

I am not saying that forgiveness and reconciliation are the same. I could never call this man a brother (based on your info.), but I would pray for his soul and hope that God would change him. These threads that just bash on people are not pleasing to God. All these threads started just to slander someone isn't apostolic. Paul did give warnings in his letters, but they were brief and to the point. We sometimes have to call something out, but then we must move on.

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

We notice how much the other side (William Davies and his son Matthew Davies) has posted in this thread. Hey, HH why don't you send the Davies this thread (especially James Goings' contribution to it?) I bet they, and their lawyers would like to peruse its' contents.




That's par for the course, because that's the only reason you are here.




But being bitter is a shortcut?



No your not.



Wow, sounds familiar!

Hello Brother Reckart.



I think we got you loud and clear on that one HH.



No, more like your 950,000.




And we see that you are the bigger kid in the sandbox.



Soon to be 950,000 pockets!

Hey when you all win the 950,000 you should turn it all into pennies so you can all roll around in it.



Good God from Zion!

Wow, you had no problem with typing this?

Wow.

Really, I couldn't care less if Bill reads this thread and by all accounts most likely has.

As for you opinion on any of this matter it means nothing. You seem to be a ministerial apologist anyway. You lack experiance in a matter such as this. Almost ignerant.
You and bill would get along well I bet.
So enjoy the little world you live in. I am free to enjoy the big world of OP that was denied me for years.
As for the church I Go to I'll pm you. Bill has already been bashing the preacher for starting a church here in McMinnville. Hahahah I love it.

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You guys are Trinitarians.

I don't think HH is that offended.

Wow, you just past judgment without even knowing. I just went to their Web page. They believe in One God. They Baptize in Jesus name. Maybe you went to their page as well and saw happy families without your type of standards.
Dont compair yourselves amongst yourselves is a scripture that isn't obeyed.
Small little legalist world of OP.

[n david]

I do like their Statement of Faith list, though the statement on the Holy Ghost is questionable. I don't see any trinny verbage, but I may have missed it.

11.We believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a distinct aspect of the Christian foundational experience with the primary evidence of speaking in tongues as well as evidences such as empowerment to witness, to conquer sin and to live a holy life (Acts 2:1-4; 8:14-17; 19:6).

•The biblical form of church government is a plurality of elders with a Lead Pastor who all qualify on the basis of 1 Timothy 3 in spiritual life, character, domestic life and ruling ability.

•Every believer in Christ must be subject to God’s authority in a specific local church for spiritual protection and long term fruitfulness

Ruh roh Sounds like a recipe for another conflict.

http://www.citybiblechurch.org/what-we-believe

The Ministerial Fellowship of which the Pastor is chairman has a different take on its statement of faith:

We believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as an experience subsequent to salvation, with the Scriptural evidence; namely, speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (Acts 2:1-4; 8:14-17; 10:44-46; Galatians 3:14-15).

The HG is not a subsequent experience. It is not an added benefit. It is an essential part of the New Birth.

http://www.mfileader.org/?DoctrinalStatement

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by n david

I do like their Statement of Faith list, though the statement on the Holy Ghost is questionable. I don't see any trinny verbage, but I may have missed it.








Ruh roh Sounds like a recipe for another conflict.

http://www.citybiblechurch.org/what-we-believe

The Ministerial Fellowship of which the Pastor is chairman has a different take on its statement of faith:


The HG is not a subsequent experience. It is not an added benefit. It is an essential part of the New Birth.

http://www.mfileader.org/?DoctrinalStatement

Beninhin is judgmental that's all. Notice how all the people that hold position are called pastors. Wow. Sounds like what Godsdrummer was talking about. I might have to check it out.

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by n david

I do like their Statement of Faith list, though the statement on the Holy Ghost is questionable. I don't see any trinny verbage, but I may have missed it.








Ruh roh Sounds like a recipe for another conflict.

http://www.citybiblechurch.org/what-we-believe

The Ministerial Fellowship of which the Pastor is chairman has a different take on its statement of faith:


The HG is not a subsequent experience. It is not an added benefit. It is an essential part of the New Birth.

http://www.mfileader.org/?DoctrinalStatement

The UPC still has churches throughout who adhere to both of the modes of salvation. Some declare the necessity of full Acts 2:38 experience, some adhere to Romans 10 salvation and a 2nd and 3rd blessing. City Bible believes that after a person repents they need to go on and be water baptized in the name of Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost if they expect to live for God. I have yet to see anybody stop after repentance and say, "I think I am OK right here." I may or may not fully agree with the mode, but I have no doubt people are being saved and delivered in our church.

At the "Merger" that formed the UPC there were two major organizations (and a couple of smaller ones I believe), the PCI and the PAJC. One held to the Acts 2:38 formula, the other to the three blessing formula with salvation obtained at repentance and confession. The "Merger" happened when one of the elders received a Word from the Lord that they should "contend for the unity of the Spirit until they all come into the unity of the faith." Thus, the UPC was born. Over the years this division has become more and more polarizing for some reason ... don't have any idea why people find the need to force others to believe the exact same way they do, but here we are. Our church has a very large contingent of ex-UPC families, people who have been run out of UPC churches because they couldn't "get it right" and some who have just seen the revelation that the UPC adds to the scripture like we did. In fact, my Pastor and his family are ex-UPC.

We are well fed spiritually, people are being saved, where's the beef?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pneuman

The UPC still has churches throughout who adhere to both of the modes of salvation. Some declare the necessity of full Acts 2:38 experience, some adhere to Romans 10 salvation and a 2nd and 3rd blessing. City Bible believes that after a person repents they need to go on and be water baptized in the name of Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost if they expect to live for God. I have yet to see anybody stop after repentance and say, "I think I am OK right here." I may or may not fully agree with the mode, but I have no doubt people are being saved and delivered in our church.

I was raised in the UPCI, though I'm not with any organization now. My father has been a licensed minister with the UPCI for almost 65 years. He started a couple churches and has pastored in different areas for over 50 years, 35 of which was at one church. Both my parents have been in various District departments, and because of that, most of my childhood and teenage years were spent traveling around various states.

I say this because I have never visited or known of a church with the UPCI which believes the Holy Ghost is subsequent to salvation. And I definitely haven't visited or known of a church with the UPCI which believes in the Roman's 10 confession for salvation nonsense.

What are the names of these churches with the UPCI which believe in a Roman's 10 confession for salvation or that the Holy Ghost is just subsequent to salvation? Where are they located? What are the names of the Pastors?

Originally Posted by Pneuman

At the "Merger" that formed the UPC there were two major organizations (and a couple of smaller ones I believe), the PCI and the PAJC. One held to the Acts 2:38 formula, the other to the three blessing formula with salvation obtained at repentance and confession. The "Merger" happened when one of the elders received a Word from the Lord that they should "contend for the unity of the Spirit until they all come into the unity of the faith." Thus, the UPC was born.

I'm well aware of the history of the UPCI and the merger. The UPCI does not believe in a Roman's 10 confession for salvation, nor does it believe that the Holy Ghost is a benefit which comes after salvation. It has always believed that the New Birth and plan of salvation is what the Bible says: repentence, water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

Over the years this division has become more and more polarizing for some reason ... don't have any idea why people find the need to force others to believe the exact same way they do, but here we are. Our church has a very large contingent of ex-UPC families, people who have been run out of UPC churches because they couldn't "get it right" and some who have just seen the revelation that the UPC adds to the scripture like we did. In fact, my Pastor and his family are ex-UPC.

We are well fed spiritually, people are being saved, where's the beef

I'm glad you've found an assembly to join.

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by n david

I was raised in the UPCI, though I'm not with any organization now. My father has been a licensed minister with the UPCI for almost 65 years. He started a couple churches and has pastored in different areas for over 50 years, 35 of which was at one church. Both my parents have been in various District departments, and because of that, most of my childhood and teenage years were spent traveling around various states.

I say this because I have never visited or known of a church with the UPCI which believes the Holy Ghost is subsequent to salvation. And I definitely haven't visited or known of a church with the UPCI which believes in the Roman's 10 confession for salvation nonesense.

What are the names of these churches with the UPCI which believe in a Roman's 10 confession for salvation or that the Holy Ghost is just subsequent to salvation? Where are they located? What are the names of the Pastors?


I'm well aware of the history of the UPCI and the merger. The UPCI does not believe in a Roman's 10 confession for salvation, nor does it believe that the Holy Ghost is a benefit which comes after salvation. It has always believed that the New Birth and plan of salvation is what the Bible says: repentence, water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues.


I'm glad you've found an assembly to join.

David Bernard estimates that 85% of the brethren at the merger were solid on the Acts 2:38 new birth message. His logic in here:

https://www.facebook.com/davidkberna...tal_comments=3

You will notice he also recognizes what he calls the 2/3s or 2/3ers, these were brethren who still adhered to the old saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost doctrine. We have at least two of these men here in our district. They also baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is Jesus name! Heresy of heresies!!! I am not a world traveler like yourself so I can only say what I have heard. The districts that I have heard tend to have more of the 2/3ers are (I may not hit it perfect) Wisconsin, N. and S. Dakota, Idaho, some in the Carolinas, Texas, and I know of a couple in California. They do exist despite your omniscience.

I am not sure what you mean by the Romans 10 nonsense. Have you read that there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents? Strange behavior I would say for somebody who is not saved, or at the very least we should recognize this as a major step. I am not saying I disbelieve the Acts 2:38 and new birth, I just don't think it is as cut and dry as many believe it to be. It is also that God left the Ethiopian eunuch unsaved by taking Phillip away in the Spirit before He received the HG baptism, and strange that Paul left the jailer unsaved by only baptizing him. I think salvation is more a relationship process than it is a specific event. And I believe this relationship process contains several events that are all important to the process, including repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.