Angels reproducing with humans possible?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
And there was again war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number, and he also was descended from the giants.

Those giants were large men; however, they were not "sons of God".

You, and others, have inferred that the "sons of God" were fallen angels. So you go back
and forth and don't logically follow a single topic. You're trying to use a bow and arrow
against birds in flight, and a shotgun against deer at 300 yards.

"...the earth brought forth grass abd herb...and the fruit tree...AFTER ITS KIND..."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, it seems that none of us could be proven wrong...except Darwin, in y'alls versions, imo; if the giants were literal. So, assuming they were figurative--which i see as quite possible, since we still use the term 'giants' that way today--what about the references to literal giants? "We were as grasshoppers to them." Goliath. Horses just do not come from bunnies, iow. Where do you guys imagine this dna coming from? Also, Jude would seem to be invalidated with either of your versions? Also, many Egyptian steles must be considered fanciful now, rather than factual; tho i have less problem with that personally.

I believe they were literal giants, btw. As you say, there were larger people who saw Israel as grasshoppers, but like the size of Goliath, about 9 feet. Not more than that.

[shazeep]

still, these were "descended from" giants...

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Those giants were large men; however, they were not "sons of God".

You, and others, have inferred that the "sons of God" were fallen angels. So you go back
and forth and don't logically follow a single topic. You're trying to use a bow and arrow
against birds in flight, and a shotgun against deer at 300 yards.

"...the earth brought forth grass abd herb...and the fruit tree...AFTER ITS KIND..."

this last verse just validates for me that fallen angels likely found a way in to woman, as St Jude seems to think; whether that is true or not in actuality seems to be an imponderable. I am more apt to try and grasp the spirit of the verse now, and see that someone called 'sons' intruded into 'ha Adam' in some way that God was not going to tolerate.

Emphasis is placed on man's devpravity, some flooding was involved, and looks to me like the men were reset, while the curse followed them in the raven or something, and maybe got another bite at the apple before the bad seed were locked up for it, which we have plenty of precedent for. But who can tell? It's mythology. i could be way off.

[mfblume]

How does Jude factor into this?

[shazeep]

oh, just in repeating the passage in such a way as to imply that he believed it was fallen angels. I'm surprised that this wouldn't settle it, but...

6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

[Sean]

It was a comparison of angels to mankind backsliding, not a "crossbreeding" passage...LOL

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

oh, just in repeating the passage in such a way as to imply that he believed it was fallen angels. I'm surprised that this wouldn't settle it, but...

6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

THe epistle of Jude is about contending for the common faith. The example of fallen angles only goes to show that man can also fall. By no means is this an indication of angels procreate with humans.

We cannot stand on supposed implications, I think. It's too serious an issue to repeat without having explicit words to those effects.

[shazeep]

Well, i have to agree with you guys, that it can be read that way...and really i'm not too interested in putting a definitive interpretation, where the Scripture meant to possibly be more encompassing here; yet

"...since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh..."

is taken, by the commentators at least, to mean that Jude understood that fallen angels had daughters of Adam for wives.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Well, i have to agree with you guys, that it can be read that way...and really i'm not too interested in putting a definitive interpretation, where the Scripture meant to possibly be more encompassing here; yet

"...since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh..."

is taken, by the commentators at least, to mean that Jude understood that fallen angels had daughters of Adam for wives.

I've never heard a commentator make that conclusion. Not saying some don't. But I think they're in the minority.

Jud 1:7 KJV Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


The strange flesh issue is homosexuality.

JFB: going after strange flesh — departing from the course of nature, and going after that which is unnatural. In later times the most enlightened heathen nations indulged in the sin of Sodom without compunction or shame.

GILL: and going after strange flesh; or "other flesh"; meaning not other women besides their own wives, but men; and designs that detestable and unnatural sin, which, from these people, is called sodomy to this day; and which is an exceeding great sin, contrary to the light of nature and law of God, dishonourable to human nature, and scandalous to a nation and people, and commonly prevails where idolatry and infidelity do, as among the Papists and Mahometans;

BARNES: Going after strange flesh - Margin: “other.” The reference seems to be to the unusual sin which, from the name Sodom, has been called “sodomy.” Compare Rom_1:27. The meaning of the phrase “going after” is, that they were greatly addicted to this vice. The word “strange, or other,” refers to that which is contrary to nature. Doddridge, however, explains it, “going after strange and detestable gratifications of their pampered and indulged flesh.”

AT ROBERTSON: Strange flesh (sarkos heteras). Horrible licentiousness, not simply with women not their wives or in other nations, but even unnatural uses (Rom_1:27) for which the very word “sodomy” is used (Gen_19:4-11). The pronoun heteras (other, strange) is not in 2Pe_2:10.

[good samaritan]

So is the scripture implying the angels where homosexual? Or maybe could it mean that angels laying with humans and homosexuality are both unatural and their flesh is not meant to work that way. I don't think anyone can really prove or disprove anything on this. It is all interesting though.