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  #591  
Old 03-19-2015, 10:10 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
You have explained this as well as can be done.
Thank you.
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  #592  
Old 03-19-2015, 10:47 AM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

It appears that far more often than we imperfect, sensual-minded humans might care to recognize or admit; yea, even we who have been endowed with the “Spirit of Truth” who has promised to “guide ... into all truth” (Jn 16:13), fail to heed the wisdom of Prov 3:5-6, then we end up contending for lots of assumptions about matters that are outside the realm of biblical validation.

This on-going discussion concerning the possibility of invisible angelic beings taking on physical qualities and begetting humans of colossal size, is just such a matter. The entire issue can be easily and properly determined by careful examination of the scriptural record, relying exclusively upon the Spirit for guidance and discernment.

To indulge in speculation about a matter that cannot be definitely authenticated by the Scriptural record, IMHO, is to completely disregard the admonishment of Paul about engaging in “fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith” (I Tim 1:4).

In the beginning, when God created all things which were to exist upon the earth, He established a principle whereby these (plants, animals, & humans) would be perpetually preserved. That principle was the “seed” (Gen 1:11-12, 30).

Simply stated, when the “seed” of any of the living organisms that God created is placed in its ordained venue, where there it would be provided the needed sustenance for growth, it would evolve, according to its own time, until it matured into an exact replica of that from whence it came (e.g., an acorn, the seed of an oak tree, is placed in the ground, it evolves into another oak tree; the seed of a male human being, when placed in the womb of a female human being, produces another human bring, etc.).

Absolutely nothing in the entirety of the Scriptures allows one to conclude that angels, who are incorporeal spiritual entities, were endowed with a “seed” (which is a substantive thing) at their creation, therefore it would seem, to me at least, that to even engage in a discussion about such a non-existent matter is a waste of one’s time at best, and ludicrous at its worse.
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  #593  
Old 03-19-2015, 11:49 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

well, Lafon, we have the corporeal serpent in the garden, so...

and curiosity about the details of the days of Noah strikes me as vitally cogent to our current frame of reference. While Gen6 is obviously mythology, and i don't expect any definitive answer, necessarily, i don't see how any of the above points can be argued against very successfully.
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  #594  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:01 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

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Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Aquila, your post is filled with only assumptions of these fallen angels transforming into humans and suddenly having the ability to have intercourse with humans.
I care to disagree. Throughout the Old Testament, we see angels taking physical form. While in physical form they eat, drink, wrestle, and wage war. It is only an assumption that fallen angels cannot do the same.

Quote:
Marriage is when two are joined together as one (I will leave it at that)....LOL
True. My premise is, if an angel (holy or fallen) can take physical form to eat, drink, wrestle, and wage war... doesn't it stand to reason that a fallen angel could chose to do more carnal and debased things?

Quote:
There was no visible demon seen on planet earth by a human, nor were there any mentioned being seen, running around in the history of the Bible to this day.
Satan took the physical form of a serpent.

Quote:
These INVISIBLE demons can only possess things, unless the Lord gives them the ability to be visible (in the Spirit). This "power" or miracle of appearing human was ONLY used in good, not evil (Abraham, etc.). Remember that SATAN himself can only become as an ANGEL of light.
Again, you're speaking in absolutes. Satan took the physical form of a serpent. Holy angels took physical form with regards to events in the lives of Abraham, Jacob, and the nation of Israel. Jesus because the Bible doesn't specifically speak to something, it doesn't mean that it isn't a reality. The Bible never states that Jesus used the restroom either, but the Bible speaks of His humanity. Therefore, by implication, we can conclude that Jesus used the restroom.

Quote:
These same fallen angels are still alive...did God take away their transformation power? Why is it not occurring today?
Great question. First, throughout human history there have been many testimonies of individuals within the occult conjuring demons that took physical form. Rev. Jonathan Suber testified that a demon manifested in physical form in his office once. Legends of demons taking on physical form and sexually accosting people abound. These are known as incubi and succubi by Christian demonologists are seen in nearly every culture. Even after the flood there are extra-biblical legends of the same, and even the connection to giants that dwelt in the land.

However, these instances are very rare. Why? Look at what seems to be the punishment for such demons. If vanquished, they are bound by chains of darkness until the Day of Judgment. So any demon wishing to take physical form and accost mankind risks confinement until judgment.

Quote:
If God gave them the power to become human and have sex, then this ancient miracle was an exclusive "setup" from God to have an excuse to destroy mankind, etc.
God have angels vast powers and abilities as part of their nature. It isn't an instance by instance grant from God. Michael and Gabriel do not need God's permission to traverse the heavenly and earthly planes of existence. They do so as their duties call for it and as they engage spiritual forces that hinder the church. Angels even take on physical form to test us. Please note,
Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
The angels that sinned are commonly thought of as being a classification known as the Waters. These are the "scribes" of Heaven. This event was a separate and rather contained event compared to Lucifer's rebellion prior to the Creation.

Satan's hierarchy is structured much like God's. Most Angelogists agree that Heavens' angelic hierarchy is structured in three "Spheres" of influence relating to the three Heavens. Each Sphere is subdivided into "Choirs" wherein specific roles and duties are possessed by various classifications of angels. The structures most agree upon are similar to this:
Divine Source: GOD

Third Heavenly Sphere (Third Heaven):
1.) Seraphim – Angels of Worship and Pure Love surrounding the throne of God. (Worship)
2.) Cherubim – Angelic Guardians of Heaven. (Guardians of Heaven)
3.) Thrones – Angelic High Council (24 Angelic Elders - Angelic Government)
Second Heavenly Sphere (Second Heaven):
1.) Dominions – Angelic Governors of the material world answering to the Thrones. (The Universe)
2.) Powers – Angelic Guardians of the Second Heaven. (Galaxies, Solar Systems, Planetary bodies)
3.) Virtues – Angelic Guardians Over the Forces of Nature. (Forces of Nature)
First Heavenly Sphere (First Heaven):
1.) Principalities – Angelic rulers of nations, places, bodies. (Regions on Earth)
2.) Angels – Angelic Messengers. (Messengers)
3.) Guardian Angels– Angelic Guardians of individual people. (People)
The subclasses of angels not relating to the Spheres are:

1.) Archangels - Angels appointed as the guardians of the church who stand before the very throne of God. Some say that there are essentially 7 primary Archangels who are identified as the "Seven Spirits of God". Each Archangel's name speaks to it's nature and area(s) of authority in the life of the church. These are:
The Seven Spirits of God (Before the Throne of God): The Archangels (meanings of their names and areas of authority)
1.) Archangel Michael (Who Is Like God?/Angel of Protection)
2.) Archangel Gabriel (God Is My Strength/Angel of Resurrection)
3.) Archangel Raphael (God Heals/Angel of Healing)
4.) Archangel Uriel (Light of God/Angel of Provision)
5.) Archangel Jophiel (Beauty of God/Angel of Illumination)
6.) Archangel Chamuel (He Who Sees God/Angel of Love and Relationships)
7.) Archangel Zadkiel (Righteousness of God/Angel of Forgiveness, Transformation and Freedom)
Archangels function as prophetic messengers, protectors, warriors, and agents of virtuous dispensation (as it relates to the "energies" of God).

2.) Watcher (Grigori) - Another subclass of angel not associated with the Spheres is the Watcher. Watchers are the "scribes" and "historians" of Heaven who are assigned to earth to record the deeds of man without interfering with mankind's development or the war between God and Satan. They were ordained to be unbiased spectators. It is believed that a faction of these angels are those who rebelled to materialize and cohabitate with women. They are also believed to have taught men wickedness in their desire to desecrate and destroy the human race. Those angels named in this rebellion by the book of Enoch and other apocryphal literature are:
1.) Araqiel (also Arakiel, Araqael, Araciel, Arqael, Sarquael, Arkiel, Arkas) taught humans the signs of the earth.
2.) Armaros (also Amaros) in Enoch I taught men the resolving of enchantments.
3.) Azazel taught men to make knives, swords, shields, and how to devise ornaments and cosmetics.
4.) Gadreel (or Gader'el) taught the art of cosmetics, the use of weapons and killing blows.
5.) Baraqel (Baraqiel) taught men astrology
6.) Bezaliel mentioned in Enoch I, left out of most translations because of damaged manuscripts and problematic transmission of the text.
7.) Chazaqiel (sometimes Ezeqeel or Cambriel) taught men the signs of the clouds (meteorology).
8.) Kokabiel (also Kakabel, Kochbiel, Kokbiel, Kabaiel, and Kochab), In Enoch I, he is a fallen Watcher, resident of the nether realms, and commands 365,000 surrogate spirits to do his bidding. Among other duties, he instructs his fellows in astrology.
9.) Penemue "taught mankind the art of writing with ink and paper," and taught "the children of men the bitter and the sweet and the secrets of wisdom." (I Enoch 69.8)
10.) Sariel (also Suriel) taught mankind about the courses of the moon (at one time regarded as forbidden knowledge).
11.) Samyaza (also Shemyazaz, Shamazya, Semiaza, Shemhazi, Semyaza and Amezyarak) is one of the leaders of the fall from heaven.
12.) Shamsiel, once a guardian of Eden as stated in the Zohar, served as one of the two chief aides to the archangel Uriel (the other aide being Hasdiel) when Uriel bore his standard into battle, and is the head of 365 legions of angels. In Jubilees, he is referred to as one of the Watchers. He is a fallen angel who teaches the signs of the sun.
13.) Yeqon (also Jeqon or Yaqum, יָקוּם, "he shall rise") was the ringleader who first tempted the other Watchers into having sexual relations with humans. His accomplices were Asbeel, Gadreel, Penemue, and Kasdaye (or Kasadya), who were all identified as individual "satans".
As for Hell's Hierarchy, it is structured much like Heaven's.
God of this World: Lucifer (Ha Shaytan/Satan)
Seven Princes of Hell (Before the Throne of Satan): Each has been given charge over a specific area of sinful vice. Here are the devils with their names and areas of sinful influence (Lucifer himself among them).
1.) Lucifer himself: pride
2.) Mammon: greed
3.) Asmodeus: lust
4.) Leviathan: envy
5.) Beelzebub: gluttony
6.) Amon or Saytan: wrath
7.) Belphegor: sloth
Second Wing of Hell (Second Heaven):
1.) Dominions – Demonic Lords of the material world answering to the Princes. (Universe)
2.) Powers – Demonic Lords of the Second Heaven. (Galaxies, Solar Systems, Planetary bodies)
3.) Vices – Demonic Authorities Over the Forces of Nature. (Forces of Nature)
First Wing of Hell (First Heaven):
1.) Principalities – Demonic rulers of nations, places, bodies. (Regions on Earth)
2.) Demons/Unclean Spirits – Demonic agents of affliction and attack. (Messengers/Destroyers)
3.) Familiar Spirits – Demonic assignments over individual people. (People)
There are an innumerable number of areas wherein Demons operate. Many have even hived off to form their own "legions". Many operate alone. Yes, there is war and dissention in Satan's kingdom. Among these are:
•Demons of death & sickness
•Incubi and succubi
•Wandering groups or armies of demons (often hived off and following chosen leader)
•Nephilim and other demons that are born from the union of a demon with a human being.
•Seducing demons
Much of this is considered debatable by scholars. However, it illustrates the complexity of the matter and the ancient understanding of this subject.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-19-2015 at 12:45 PM.
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  #595  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:15 PM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
well, Lafon, we have the corporeal serpent in the garden, so...

and curiosity about the details of the days of Noah strikes me as vitally cogent to our current frame of reference. While Gen6 is obviously mythology, and i don't expect any definitive answer, necessarily, i don't see how any of the above points can be argued against very successfully.

God gave the serpent its own seed, which differs from man. Therefore it seems to be conjecture at best or one to conclude that the implantation of its seeds into the womb of a woman would produce a human being instead of another serpent (which, admittedly, sounds rather absurd to even speculate).

What is it about the contents of Genesis 6 which causes you to conclude that it is nothing more than "mythology"? Isn't that the same as casting doubt upon the integrity of the entire Scriptural record?

It just seems, to me at least, that somewhere, and at sometime during one's earthly life, we humans MUST determine that there be something we can use as an unquestionable, inerrant Arbitrator which provides the knowledge needed to make rationale conclusions, and as for me, the sacred Scriptures do just that. Therefore I accept its contents without questioning or doubting their merits for it is truth (John 17:17).
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  #596  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:19 PM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

Proper discernment of II Peter 2:4, as well as Jude 6, IMHO, is simply stating that the angels, who of their own volition (because I am persuaded that God gave both angels & humans a “free-will”), to join Lucifer in his rebellion, have been rendered incapable of distinguishing between good and evil (hence the phrase “everlasting chains of darkness” — a figure of speech or metaphor for “spiritual blindness”); a condition of reality which God decreed they must endure until “the judgment of the great day” (i.e., the last day when the eternal judgment of all things will be rendered).

Nothing within the context of these scriptural passages, as well as any other, warrants the conclusion (which some here have speculate) that these represent a separate group of angelic beings who were guilty of having committed an offense against God that is greater than has been noted (we must remember that sin is sin, regardless of its character, therefore all shall receive the same judgment).

The event described in Matthew 8:28-34 appears to substantiate both Peter and Jude’s words (see also Mark 5:1-17 & Luke 8:26-26), for although being spiritually blinded, these fallen angels, like sinful unrepentant mankind, have been made aware that there is to come a day of eternal reckoning and judgment. Even these fallen angels (i.e., demons) were aware that the righteousness of God, that is, His equitable administering of justice, prohibited Him from exacting justice upon them for their offence against Him until the appointed moment, hence their proclamation — “art thou come hither to torment us before the time?”

By this we must also conclude that currently neither angels or humans who have willfully chosen to rebel against God’s sovereignty by disobeying His commandments, have been compelled to languish in torment by the flames of hell’s fire (as many have inaccurately speculated). For one to publicly broadcast otherwise is to teach rebellion against God, bring doubt to His integrity and serves to impugn His righteousness (equality of administering justice for sin).

I respectively tender these statements of personal opinion about this matter for consideration of their merits, while recognizing and acknowledging there will be those who disagree.
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  #597  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:28 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

Gen6 is written in a style that strongly suggests that it was derived from oral tradition, unlike much of the rest of the Bible. There was no witness. This does not make it less true, but rather allegory, that is difficult or impossible to derive details from.
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  #598  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:44 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I care to disagree. Throughout the Old Testament, we see angels taking physical form. While in physical form they eat, drink, wrestle, and wage war. It is only an assumption that fallen angels cannot do the same.

Only in instances of righteousness are they miraculously able to appear human(oid)



True. My premise is, if an angel (holy or fallen) can take physical form to eat, drink, wrestle, and wage war... doesn't it stand to reason that a fallen angel could chose to do more carnal and debased things?


Only in instances of righteousness are they miraculously able to appear human(oid)


Satan took the physical form of a serpent.

Where does it say that?



Again, you're speaking in absolutes. Satan took the physical form of a serpent.

Again bro. where does it say Satan took the physical form of a serpent?

Holy angels took physical form with regards to events in the lives of Abraham, Jacob, and the nation of Israel. Jesus because the Bible doesn't specifically speak to something, it doesn't mean that it isn't a reality.


My point is ONLY holy angels were able to miraculously transform...even to this day(according to Gods' will..."some have entertained angels unawares")


The Bible never states that Jesus used the restroom either, but the Bible speaks of His humanity. Therefore, by implication, we can conclude that Jesus used the restroom.

Jesus was not an angel.



Great question. First, throughout human history there have been many testimonies of individuals within the occult conjuring demons that took physical form. Rev. Jonathan Suber testified that a demon manifested in physical form in his office once. Legends of demons taking on physical form and sexually accosting people abound. These are known as incubi and succubi by Christian demonologists are seen in nearly every culture. Even after the flood there are extra-biblical legends of the same, and even the connection to giants that dwelt in the land.

Brother, legends dont preach.

However, these instances are very rare. Why? Look at what seems to be the punishment for such demons. If vanquished, they are bound by chains of darkness until the Day of Judgment. So any demon wishing to take physical form and accost mankind risks confinement until judgment.

???


God have angels vast powers and abilities as part of their nature. It isn't an instance by instance grant from God. Michael and Gabriel do not need God's permission to traverse the heavenly and earthly planes of existence. They do so as their duties call for it and as they engage spiritual forces that hinder the church. Angels even take on physical form to test us. Please note,
Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Like I said...only HOLY ANGELS are miraculously able to do that.


The angels that sinned are commonly thought of as being a classification known as the Waters. These are the "scribes" of Heaven. This event was a separate and rather contained event compared to Lucifer's rebellion prior to the Creation.

???

Satan's hierarchy is structured much like God's. Most Angelogists agree that Heavens' angelic hierarchy is structured in three "Spheres" of influence relating to the three Heavens. Each Sphere is subdivided into "Choirs" wherein specific roles and duties are possessed by various classifications of angels. The structures most agree upon are similar to this:
Divine Source: GOD

Third Heavenly Sphere (Third Heaven):
1.) Seraphim – Angels of Worship and Pure Love surrounding the throne of God. (Worship)
2.) Cherubim – Angelic Guardians of Heaven. (Guardians of Heaven)
3.) Thrones – Angelic High Council (24 Angelic Elders - Angelic Government)
Second Heavenly Sphere (Second Heaven):
1.) Dominions – Angelic Governors of the material world answering to the Thrones. (The Universe)
2.) Powers – Angelic Guardians of the Second Heaven. (Galaxies, Solar Systems, Planetary bodies)
3.) Virtues – Angelic Guardians Over the Forces of Nature. (Forces of Nature)
First Heavenly Sphere (First Heaven):
1.) Principalities – Angelic rulers of nations, places, bodies. (Regions on Earth)
2.) Angels – Angelic Messengers. (Messengers)
3.) Guardian Angels– Angelic Guardians of individual people. (People)
The subclasses of angels not relating to the Spheres are:

1.) Archangels - Angels appointed as the guardians of the church who stand before the very throne of God. Some say that there are essentially 7 primary Archangels who are identified as the "Seven Spirits of God". Each Archangel's name speaks to it's nature and area(s) of authority in the life of the church. These are:
The Seven Spirits of God (Before the Throne of God): The Archangels (meanings of their names and areas of authority)
1.) Archangel Michael (Who Is Like God?/Angel of Protection)
2.) Archangel Gabriel (God Is My Strength/Angel of Resurrection)
3.) Archangel Raphael (God Heals/Angel of Healing)
4.) Archangel Uriel (Light of God/Angel of Provision)
5.) Archangel Jophiel (Beauty of God/Angel of Illumination)
6.) Archangel Chamuel (He Who Sees God/Angel of Love and Relationships)
7.) Archangel Zadkiel (Righteousness of God/Angel of Forgiveness, Transformation and Freedom)
Archangels function as prophetic messengers, protectors, warriors, and agents of virtuous dispensation (as it relates to the "energies" of God).

2.) Watcher (Grigori) - Another subclass of angel not associated with the Spheres is the Watcher. Watchers are the "scribes" and "historians" of Heaven who are assigned to earth to record the deeds of man without interfering with mankind's development or the war between God and Satan. They were ordained to be unbiased spectators. It is believed that a faction of these angels are those who rebelled to materialize and cohabitate with women. They are also believed to have taught men wickedness in their desire to desecrate and destroy the human race. Those angels named in this rebellion by the book of Enoch and other apocryphal literature are:
1.) Araqiel (also Arakiel, Araqael, Araciel, Arqael, Sarquael, Arkiel, Arkas) taught humans the signs of the earth.
2.) Armaros (also Amaros) in Enoch I taught men the resolving of enchantments.
3.) Azazel taught men to make knives, swords, shields, and how to devise ornaments and cosmetics.
4.) Gadreel (or Gader'el) taught the art of cosmetics, the use of weapons and killing blows.
5.) Baraqel (Baraqiel) taught men astrology
6.) Bezaliel mentioned in Enoch I, left out of most translations because of damaged manuscripts and problematic transmission of the text.
7.) Chazaqiel (sometimes Ezeqeel or Cambriel) taught men the signs of the clouds (meteorology).
8.) Kokabiel (also Kakabel, Kochbiel, Kokbiel, Kabaiel, and Kochab), In Enoch I, he is a fallen Watcher, resident of the nether realms, and commands 365,000 surrogate spirits to do his bidding. Among other duties, he instructs his fellows in astrology.
9.) Penemue "taught mankind the art of writing with ink and paper," and taught "the children of men the bitter and the sweet and the secrets of wisdom." (I Enoch 69.8)
10.) Sariel (also Suriel) taught mankind about the courses of the moon (at one time regarded as forbidden knowledge).
11.) Samyaza (also Shemyazaz, Shamazya, Semiaza, Shemhazi, Semyaza and Amezyarak) is one of the leaders of the fall from heaven.
12.) Shamsiel, once a guardian of Eden as stated in the Zohar, served as one of the two chief aides to the archangel Uriel (the other aide being Hasdiel) when Uriel bore his standard into battle, and is the head of 365 legions of angels. In Jubilees, he is referred to as one of the Watchers. He is a fallen angel who teaches the signs of the sun.
13.) Yeqon (also Jeqon or Yaqum, יָקוּם, "he shall rise") was the ringleader who first tempted the other Watchers into having sexual relations with humans. His accomplices were Asbeel, Gadreel, Penemue, and Kasdaye (or Kasadya), who were all identified as individual "satans".
As for Hell's Hierarchy, it is structured much like Heaven's.
God of this World: Lucifer (Ha Shatan)
Seven Princes of Hell (Before the Throne of Satan): Each has been given charge over a specific area of sinful vice. Here are the devils with their names and areas of sinful influence (Lucifer himself among them).
1.) Lucifer himself: pride
2.) Mammon: greed
3.) Asmodeus: lust
4.) Leviathan: envy
5.) Beelzebub: gluttony
6.) Amon or Saytan: wrath
7.) Belphegor: sloth
Second Wing of Hell (Second Heaven):
1.) Dominions – Demonic Lords of the material world answering to the Princes. (Universe)
2.) Powers – Demonic Lords of the Second Heaven. (Galaxies, Solar Systems, Planetary bodies)
3.) Vices – Demonic Authorities Over the Forces of Nature. (Forces of Nature)
First Wing of Hell (First Heaven):
1.) Principalities – Demonic rulers of nations, places, bodies. (Regions on Earth)
2.) Demons/Unclean Spirits – Demonic agents of affliction and attack. (Messengers/Destroyers)
3.) Familiar Spirits – Demonic assignments over individual people. (People)
Much of this is considered debatable by scholars. However, it illustrates the complexity of the matter and the ancient understanding of this subject.

Brother, if its not clearly written in the Bible, it should not be taught. Much of the "angelologist" stuff above is clear speculation.(commentary). I simply disagree with men unless they produce verses to prove their concept.
As far as folks seeing demons turn into humans, some folks just lack attention.

Last edited by Sean; 03-19-2015 at 12:46 PM.
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  #599  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:51 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

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Originally Posted by Lafon View Post
Proper discernment of II Peter 2:4, as well as Jude 6, IMHO, is simply stating that the angels, who of their own volition (because I am persuaded that God gave both angels & humans a “free-will”), to join Lucifer in his rebellion, have been rendered incapable of distinguishing between good and evil (hence the phrase “everlasting chains of darkness” — a figure of speech or metaphor for “spiritual blindness”); a condition of reality which God decreed they must endure until “the judgment of the great day” (i.e., the last day when the eternal judgment of all things will be rendered).
Brother Lafon, I deeply respect you and your thoughts on issues. However, I see this as rather sloppy scholarship. Please notice what II Peter 2:4 states:
II Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Please notice, these "angels that sinned" were not spared. God chose to, "cast them down to hell (Tartarus)", and "delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment".

These are confined in Tartarus. The ancients wrote of Tatarus and what it meant according to their understanding. Strong's defines it as:
5020 // tartarow // tartaroo // tar-tar-o'-o //

from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hell); v

AV - cast down to hell 1; 1

1) the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by
the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer
punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews
2) to thrust down to Tartarus, to hold captive in Tartarus
These angels were cast down to be confined in a spiritual "place" or "plane of existence". Their "chains" may not be physical... but their confinement isn't figurative.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:59 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Angels reproducing with humans possible?

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Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Brother, if its not clearly written in the Bible, it should not be taught. Much of the "angelologist" stuff above is clear speculation.(commentary). I simply disagree with men unless they produce verses to prove their concept.
As far as folks seeing demons turn into humans, some folks just lack attention.
Much of the angelic hierarchy is based on the Greek definitions of such words as Principalities, Powers, Dominions, etc. Others aspects of the hierarchy are based on passages of apocalyptic Scripture. For example the 24 Throned Elders before God's throne, the Seven Spirits of God, etc. (all found in the Revelation). Others such as the Watchers and regional "Principalities/Princes" can be drawn from Daniel. Roles and descriptions of angels are often implied in books such as Genesis and Ezekiel (Cherubim guarding the Garden, Seraphim worshipping before the throne, etc.)

Some of what is said of the Archangels is speculative and/or related to the Apocryphic writings.

Much of what is known of demons is gleaned from the implication of Scripture, oral tradition, and various experiences involving exorcisms etc. Most is speculative. However, we can be assured that Satan imitates God, and structures his command much like the LORD's. However, the nature of rebellious spirits being what it is... no doubt they keep Satan's hands full.
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