Original Sin

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

If Adam is not a real man then neither is Jesus/ Romans and 1 Cor speak of Adam as the antithesis of Jesus after Adam sinned. Jesus was a real man and his act of obedience made us saints. So, what's wrong with thinking one man's disobedience made us sinners? If one isn't true, then neither is the other. We can be in Christ and live even though Christ was a man. What's wrong with saying the other regarding Adam if that is true with Christ?

Absolutely nothing, per se, that i can think of. Maybe it could be argued that we are making one human a scapegoat with it--hmm, which is our wont, is it not lol--and, it strikes me as the more "literal" reading of Scripture, which usually strikes me as the more naive approach; but none of these arguments is absolute. I think an equally fair question arises out of that, that being the obvious one about why not consider the other pov, if it illuminates Christ more fully for one. I tried it, and did not die the Spirit will not let a seeker after Christ go too far off the path, have no fear.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

again, if you will either suspend the skepticism at the points you are uncomfortable with--or alternately, do your best to disprove them--you will see that the differences--whether Adam was an actual person, or just "Ruddy," for instance--do not really change anything in your daily walk, but just (hopefully) open your pov. If the point is to come to a more complete understanding of Love your neighbor, reflect upon how just re-reading the posts indicates the difference. We are a death centric religion: (

I will touch on those issues in bold.
To "suspend the skepticism", or try to "disprove" unbelief (for that is what it is)
would be to act contrary to faith. Now my personal pov would also be that; thinking or
acting out in my carnal mind, which is relying on logic and not faith. God has
proven himself to me too many times to enumerate, for me to go there.

Yes, many folks are focusing on death, instead of the LIFE God offers. They hear
the death without the gospel instead of the LIFE in it, and tend to disbelieve. Why?
Because ALL men die. They hear and see death, and cannot see past that, to the
resurrection! Can YOU see past death to the resurrection? No, no, no. I ask, can
you SEE the resurrection?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Absolutely nothing, per se, that i can think of. Maybe it could be argued that we are making one human a scapegoat with it--hmm, which is our wont, is it not lol--and, it strikes me as the more "literal" reading of Scripture, which usually strikes me as the more naive approach; but none of these arguments is absolute. I think an equally fair question arises out of that, that being the obvious one about why not consider the other pov, if it illuminates Christ more fully for one. I tried it, and did not die the Spirit will not let a seeker after Christ go too far off the path, have no fear.

I see no need since, like I said, Christ was a literal man and yet his act made us righteous. Romans 5 plainly says that's the antithesis to Adam. I see no debate, seriously. Seems like defying Occam's Razor, to me. lol

[shazeep]

i feel more or less the same way, but was just replying to "if Adam wasn't real, neither was Christ." Hopefully one might see that it is possible for Adam to be composite Man, an allegorical story (if the word "mythology" bugs you) without compromising their faith.

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I will touch on those issues in bold.
To "suspend the skepticism", or try to "disprove" unbelief (for that is what it is)
would be to act contrary to faith. Now my personal pov would also be that; thinking or
acting out in my carnal mind, which is relying on logic and not faith. God has
proven himself to me too many times to enumerate, for me to go there.

Yes, many folks are focusing on death, instead of the LIFE God offers. They hear
the death without the gospel instead of the LIFE in it, and tend to disbelieve. Why?
Because ALL men die. They hear and see death, and cannot see past that, to the
resurrection! Can YOU see past death to the resurrection? No, no, no. I ask, can
you SEE the resurrection?

i def agree that trying to disprove is not the best way; but we are human, and often contrary. It is presented as a possible last attempt to grasp the truth in a matter. Really, whether this particular story is taken literally or as allegory ("mythology") seems moxnix to me; tho there might be some meaningful diff.

And i guess it is naive, actually, to suppose that satan would not be doing his best to occlude the Resurrection to a believer, and emphasize death.